A Common Lock In My Area

by **licehunter2** » 10 Jun 2005 6:31

This may actually be my first post here (been lurking for a while, though), so hi everyone

Anyway, where I am currently residing in the continent (Catalonia, near Girona) I have noticed one type of lock to be extremely popular (although many new buildings are using a different type, of which I will post pictures soon). I am sorry if this post sounds like a description of how to suck an egg, it's just that I haven't seen this particular lock mentioned here and thus I assume at it may be unfamiliar to at least part of the audience.

This is the lock in question, assembled:

The particularity of these locks respect to what I've seen elsewhere is that it has two cylinders mounted on the same casing, both of which operate the tabbed ring in the centre, which actuates the lock.

Once disassembled it is a pretty unremarkable Yale-type lock, as you can see in the next two pictures:

So there it is, no safety pins or any other antipicking feature. They are very easy to pick, and they are extremely sensible to raking when not mounted on a door. I have not successfully raked one when mounted, probably because of the need to apply torque in a different way to account for the friction caused by the bolting mechanism. Then again, my picking skills are terrible so that does not prove anything.

One other thing to note is that they do not seem to be built to allow repinning, due to the opposing cylinder getting in the way of any rigid tool used to hold the pins in place while sliding the cylinder in. Indeed, reassembling one of them took me about an hour of fidling with bits of cardboard and all sort of flexible objects in an attempt to keep the pins in. In the end, I managed to put it back together but with only three out of five pins. But, I insist, Handycraft is not my middle name.

At the factory, they introduce the pins through the bottom, and then they seal the holes, as can be seen on this pic:

So, I wonder how common these locks are in your area, if they exist at all, and under what names they are known there.

by **Varjeal** » 10 Jun 2005 9:21

These are most commonly (on this site) referred to as Euro profile cylinders, though to be proper just "profile cylinders" will do. They come in both single cylinder (with an inside thumb turn or connected to a surface mounted rim latch or other bolt work) and the double cylinder variety that you have.

Those locks can also be repinned in a few different manners, depending on whether or not you have the required tools. If you don't, here's how it can be accomplished:

1. Find yourself some 1/8 or slightly oversized brass rod.
2. preferrably with a drill press, (or free hand if you can drill straight) use a 1/8" or slightly smaller bit to drill those indented pins out. You don't need to drill far and you'll need to be very careful how much pressure to apply. As soon as you sense the bit want to jump, STOP.

Hopefully at this point you have not damaged the spring and the spring, driver, and bottom pin can be removed as you will.
3. Once you've repinned the cylinder to your liking, cut a couple inches off the brass rod for each pin chamber, and using a hammer lightly tap them into each hole a little ways. This way, you can pull them out with pliers and rekey them whenever you wish...Evenually the holes will be too large for the rod to fit properly, but perhaps by then you will be ready to move on to other locks or will have acquired the proper tools to rekey future locks.

For instructions on the proper tools to rekey the double cylinder variety, visit the Euro forum and pose the question there.

Hope that helps.

by **HeadHunterCEO** » 10 Jun 2005 9:39

get a wooden dowel the same diameter as your good follower and chop it into 1/4" sections

feed them in one as a time advance the plug out

rekey reinsert and reverse the process for getting it in

by **Shrub** » 10 Jun 2005 9:59

There is a special tool you can make from a paperclip (this is not a wind up),

You use the clip to hold the pins in when sliding the plug back in, there is not enough force on the mechs for it to hinder picking, mounted locks are allways harder than practice ones as they have had the weather on them and are usually a differant angle than when you do them at home in the armchair :lol:

The process is described by a member called sj and is pointless reprinting here, check his posts for 'repinning a euro cylinder' its a good guide,
Try http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=5199 but am not sure if its right.

by **Shrub** » 10 Jun 2005 10:00

Yes that is the right link, i learned the full process for repinning euro cylinders from that one thread alone!!!

by **capt.dunc** » 11 Jun 2005 6:40

they are commonly available in three types, single sided (like if you cut it through the middle) and two double sided versions; two key cylinders (as shown above) and two cylinders, one with a key, and one with a thumb turn.
you have a very easy looking one, the key bitting is almost level. they are available with more than 5 pins per side, as well as restrictive keyways, and security pins. an incredibly popular type of lock in the uk

by **master in training** » 11 Jun 2005 7:06

does anyone remember the thread about why people had the names they did? unless im going insane (i probably am!), we couldnt guess what mcm's username meant, could we?

/me looks closely at the key in the picture above....

hmmm, it says mcm, then a number, could it be whats on your key mcm?

sorry, totally offtopic, it just reminded me.

~ MiT ~

by **licehunter2** » 12 Jun 2005 8:07

You chaps are amazing!

I loved the method described in the post pointed to by Shrub.

Now I've got another question, purely academic. Say you repin one of these locks by the expedient method of shuffling the pins, say then you want a key which will open that lock. How would you cut the new key, assuming that you have a key cutting machine (let's assume one that can cut to code, if it makes any difference), and that the original key did not have its code printed on it.

Would impressioning be the only way to cut a new key?

by **Grudge** » 12 Jun 2005 8:53

Probably should leave this up to the pros to answer, but...
All you need to know is the length of the pins and the order you placed them into the lock. This translates to the height of the key cuts to push those pins up to the shear line.

by **raimundo** » 12 Jun 2005 9:00

your gonna use the expiedient method of rearranging the same pins, then you have the cuts on the original key, all you need to do is some creative moving of that key in the cutter jaw or the copier jaw (use a caliper, and even mark the flats position with a marker pen) Copy the new key off the old key.

by **Shrub** » 12 Jun 2005 11:01

You beat me to it :lol:

You usually do not get a code on the key that relates to the cuts on that key, the code is usually the number of the key blank,

You can get charts of pin lengths and what cut they refer to, if you have a pin you would measure it and then decide which number pin it is, you will then find out the cut depth and then useing your depth keys (a set of keys for that keyway which have all the cuts on eg 1st key will be cut#1 all along it, 2nd key will be cut#2 all along it etc etc) you would then cut the key,

If you have the original key and are using the original pins then as raimondo said you would just use the correct depth on that key to copy to the blank but this time in the right place.

by **licehunter2** » 15 Jun 2005 11:37

Hi Shrub.

You usually do not get a code on the key that relates to the cuts on that key, the code is usually the number of the key blank,

I've got these keys which came with one of my practice locks, and both of them have the number 12351, which appears to correspond with the number of pins in the lock and their relative lengths (i.e., the first and fifth are the same length, the fourth is the longest, etc.). I have compared other locks with their original keys and it seems to be consistent. My blanks, OTOH, do not have anything looking like a serial number, just a name and model. So is it possible that some manufacturers stamp the lock's code on their original keys?

by **digital_blue** » 15 Jun 2005 12:09

Those are in fact the cut depth codes for your lock. This is not at all uncommon, it seems, particularily on cheaper locks. Of course, it will only exist on original keys, not on copies.

Cheers!

db

by **Mad Mick** » 15 Jun 2005 19:00

licehunter2 wrote:My blanks, OTOH, do not have anything looking like a serial number, just a name and model.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but why would a blank have any form of code stamped on it?

by **Shrub** » 16 Jun 2005 4:25

Licey,
I didnt think they did but ive been proved wrong by db so i guess you do get direct codes stamped on keys but isnt common where i am,

Mick,
A lot of the blanks i get do have the blank order code stamped on them and i think thats what he was refering to as i mentioned it earlier on, Sorry but it was my big mouth that said it :lol:

A Common Lock In My Area

A Common Lock In My Area

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