Mortice Sash/Deadlock locks with mortice Keys in the USA

[phatramp]

Hi everyone , this is my first post on here so here goes.
Do you get UK BS 3621 Mortice Sash/Deadlocks with mortice keys in the USA. I have seen mortice lock cases with a screw in cylinder but none with the standard mortice key.

Are there any locksmiths in the US that fit them.

Can anyone give me some info on this as I cant seem to find any,

Cheers guys/girls.

[Shrub]

How can you be in Notts and USA?


You wont find BS locks in the usa because the BS stands for British Standard, not a lot of use to the americans really,

You can get mortice locks though but i dont have enough knowledge to suggest which brand or supplier you will find them.

[phatramp]

Thanks for replying so quick Shrub. I am in the UK at the moment but will be moving to Denver Colorado at the end of Aug so will be looking to carry on my business there. Thanks for pointing out the BS thing I just used that lock as an example, I would think the US have there own security lock standards.

As I said before I know they do mortice locks but not with mortice keys.
I was thinking about trying to introduce this type of lock to people in the US as a new security alternative being as I know quite a bit about them.

Cheers Shrub

[Shrub]

You could do good business by just taking the locks over and selling them to the usa 101 members

I think this is more a question for varjeal etc, but it should be a good idea as it would be a differant lock to normally fitted so more security must be offered through obscurity.

[phatramp]

Yep I was thinking the same thing Shrub - great minds think alike

I wonder what the import duty would be on mortice locks from the UK.

[MrB]

I moved from the UK to the USA and the door lock scene is totally different over here.

A key thing about using British style mortice locks in the USA is that it would involve entirely non-standard door preparation.

Most residential deadbolts and handlesets in the US are designed to fit into a 2 1/8 inch diameter hole drilled through the face of the door with a smaller intersecting hole drilled through the edge to hold the bolt. New doors may even come pre-drilled this way.

You can see pictures and diagrams showing the general arrangement here:

http://www.kwikset.com/Support/Installa ... fault.aspx
http://www.kwikset.com/HowToChoose/Repl ... fault.aspx

So to fit a BS mortice deadbolt you would either have to be working with a new door, or find an unused place on the edge of an existing door. I think there would be some consumer resistance except amongst people who are really in the know. Making the door pocket to fit the lock would be harder too, because I don't know if standard drill jigs would be available and it would probably have to be done by eye and by hand.

[toomush2drink]

I dont see why you cant just fit as mortice lock as we do over hear unless the doors are different. I would think getting keys cut would be the hardest thing and also converting the public to carrying these long awkward keys on their keyrings.
The trend over here seems to be euro cylinders in a deadlock case on the new build houses. Euros are now everywhere compared with a few years back.
I do agree though you cant beat a well fitted mortice for security, i cant wait till a few of our american friends get their hands on chubbs etc to pick.

[MrB]

Obviously you can just fit a mortice lock. Nothing to stop you, really. Doors over here are 1 3/4 inches thick--is that the same as in Britain?

But for instance, my front door has got three 2 1/8 inch diameter holes already put through it by previous cack-handed DIYers. So it would be hard for me to find anywhere left to put a mortice pocket, other than quite high up.

That's the thing though. With a standard door preparation using a 2 1/8 hole, I can buy almost any lock from any manufacturer and it will fit interchangeably. No cutting, enlarging or chiseling required.

As far as strength goes, I saw a test done by someone where they installed a quality Schlage (?) deadbolt in a door using a reinforcing plate around the lock, and fixed a steel strike reinforcer with 3 inch screws into the stud behind the frame. The door withstood all attacks short of pushing with a forklift, and that took some attempts before the whole door frame gave way.

So US deadbolts are strong enough if good quality and fitted well.

[Shrub]

I saw that test with the forklift.

I can see both points here realy,

As it is obviously going to be a newish thing i wouldnt bother as you will not be able to convert on your own, as MrB said if things arent broken why fix them, toomush also has a very good point about the key situation as well,

Saying that i did notice mortice locks with proper mortice keys on one of these police shows about america so they are there somewhere,

MrB as a side note if you can go and get any lock and it will fit in your hole, why are there so many previous holes in your door? have you big mice?

[MrB]

One hole is for the deadbolt, one hole is for the entry handle set, and one hole is for heaven knows what. I have to block it with a blanking plate.

When you buy a house, beware of previous owners and their incompetent attempts at home maintenance. My front door is only one of many signs of previous DIY disasters...

[Shrub]

I know, the worst i regulary hear of is people who are still on the old electric boards useing nails as fuses! its also very common for builders etc to do this to a 13amp plug as well (domestic mains plugs), if anyone on here does that then STOP IT.