Help with Master Lock 140

[shlov1]

I am fairly new to picking (less than 2 months) but I am hooked. I have been working on everything I can find. I have a Master 140 that I can not get opened. I know I am turning it the right way becasue I have the keys. I can get a few pins set and it turns a bit and then stops. An earlier post told me it has spool pins and to lighten up the tension and get that one first, but I can't figure out which one it is and it is hard to get to pins 3, 4, 5 for me without knowing that I am there. Can someone walk me through this. Also, does anyone know which pin is the spool? And finally is it possible to take apart these locks? Thanks. Also, what would you all say is the best pick for little waffer locks?

[master in training]

well firstly im glad you're enjoying yourself! i know what you mean when you say you're hooked

i'm not familiar with master locks, but if it does have spool pin(s) then when you pick a pin (im assuming you're using single pin picking), you say it turns a bit then locks up, this is because the spool pin is doing its job. whats happening is the spool pin is going up a little, turning at the shear line falls into the groove and then locking up because you cant turn the plug any futher or push the pin up futher, this is stopping other pins from binding and setting too. what you need to do is when this happens, ease up on the tension very very gently, when you feel the pin drop again, you get an idea of the differences in tension needed, so apply just a tiny bit more, i.e. the amount just before the pin fell, then re-pick it. this time the pin whould go up further before setting, unlike before when it was false setting. when the spool is setting, you will feel the plug pull back slightly as the shear line has entered into the gap in the pin slightly and is then being pulled out of it as the pin is lifted.

then continue to pick the lock as before, you may want to apply slightly more tension as you go over an already set pin, then ease off again to set one, this will help to stop your pick pressing already set pins futher up etc.

sorry i cant help you on the location of the spool, but the secret to picking them is using the correct amount of tension combined with gentle use of picks (its a mixture between using enough pressure to lift the pin and not using so much that the pin shoots up and you do not feel the pin set).

if the lock is rekeyable, you should be able to remove the plug and therefore change the pins and stuff, if its not, you will have a hard time taking it apart, it may be better to get a door lock with spool pins in.

as for wafer locks, you can use pretty much anything, i use a 1/2 diamond most of the time, you could use a saw-toothed rake i suppose, even a hook if you had to, but the ball/half-ball/snowman pick is the one really made for wafers.

i hope this has helped, good luck!

~ Master in Training ~

[MrB]

The Master 140 is a small brass padlock, and if I might say so, it is an absolute bee to pick.

Yes it has spool pins, and they let the plug turn quite a long way before it stops.

Problems are the small size of the keyway making it difficult to move a pick around and feel for the pins, and the spring return on the plug making it hard to control the tension.

The answer is to use the smallest slimline picks you have available, and practice, practice, practice. It may also help to try different tension tools to find one that fits securely in the keyway without obstructing the pick.

Like MiT said, if the plug turns and sticks on a spool pin, you will have to identify which pin it is and push it up while letting the plug turn back the other way until the pin is set properly. This may unset other pins which you will have to set again. When you figure out which pins have spools, you can push them higher to start with so they skip over the spools and set properly, then they won't need freeing up later.

You can't take the lock apart without damaging it, it's not designed to be dismantled for rekeying.

[savior]

I'm having trouble with a master no. 575... it's only my second lock, does it have spool pins? Where should I go to find out about a lock in the future?

[robert-e]

You also asked if anyone knew which chambers have spool pins. Actually, it's a toss up (as it is with any lock with spool pins) You may find some or all of the chambers contain them. If not ALL chambers, they will be randomly placed from one lock to another. I doubt seriously if any lock manufacturer will use chambers exclusivly for spool pins.

[MeRZHiN]

YAY! i just picked a master 2 n°140 yay!, i think my last pin was a mushroom pin....

[Mad Mick]

YAY! i just picked a master 2 n°140 yay!, i think my last pin was a mushroom pin....

Nope...that mushroom was most-likely a spool. (unless Master have switched up)

Congrats on the pick anyway...you may be surprised to find you have picked more than one spool in that lock. Go back and feel each movement of the plug whilst picking.

[MeRZHiN]

when i push a pin up after the fake set, it makes my tension wrench turn up automatic. that's why i'm thinking that it contains mushroom pins. i LOVE this lock, and this hobby

[digital_blue]

when i push a pin up after the fake set, it makes my tension wrench turn up automatic. that's why i'm thinking that it contains mushroom pins. i LOVE this lock, and this hobby

That actually sounds very much like a spool as well. Whenever the diameter of the pin increases it will push back on the plug causing the plug to rotate backward, almost as if it's fighting against your tension wrench. This same effect could be felt with either the mushroom or the spool. You will actually notice the difference more just as you are getting into the "false set" state. At that point you might be able to tell if you are dropping over a sharp edge on the pin, or sliding smoothly. It's pretty subtle though, and some of the locks I have offer so little feedback that you would have a tough time figuring it out. Important thing is learning how to get past them, but you're on the right track with that obviously.

Happy picking!

db

[MeRZHiN]

when i set the false pin, and it's worng, my plug turn about 1millimeter, then when i release tension a little, and push it up my plug moves about 1/10th of a millimeter. i barely notice this since i'm not really exerienced in the art of lockpicking. and now i'm gonna set a sig and an avatar

[savior]

what is a mushroom pin? pretty sure i've figured the spools... picked quite a few of them most certainly.

[MeRZHiN]

u mushroom pin is a pin with this shape
|----------|
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
|-- --|
|---------|

and oh yeah, i suck at ascii

[MeRZHiN]

edit: sorry: it took out spaces
|----------|
\--------- /
-\------- /
--\----- /
---\--- /
|---------|
|---------|

[biggar101]

i have picked the master lock 140 about 4 times in my 2 weeks and it is wierd becuase like i pick it and then it feels wierd and then you take out the tention tool and you wait like 1 second and then you pick it again and it turns

[keefer157]

It's funny ,master locks are bullet proof but the're very simple to pick.
i taught my 17 yr old nephew in twenty minutes ,mabye he's just mechanically inclined.Like the one guy said lighter tension,the trick is to not conncentrate so hard try to relax or else you put to much tension on the cylinder.Breathe easy and try not to get frustrated.
Hope this helps