design competition

[capt.dunc]

well not so much of a competition as a think tank, but if we get something good from this i may buy the winner a pint.
i was thinking of the problem of a good (strong) 7g 2 in 1 pick, and or overlifters and i've got a couple of ideas, can we, as a group improve on them? the idea was to give a greater degree of control than using loose wires,



two wires fitted into a tube, (piece of aerial) then bent to shape, they are shown as dark circles in the cross section; and two other pieces of wire fitted into the tube as spacers, to prevent the working wires from skewing and locking against each other within the tube.



a grooved central body with the wires held in place by rings (the dark section on the big picture, the dark circles on the cross section being the wires) this would have the advantage that the wires could be changed to allow for different bit lengths or including a buttonhook for overlifting.

any thoughts please gentlemen. (remember this is for the good of us all at the mercy of the souber 7g or nothing)

[Shrub]

Firstly there are loads of other options than the souber 7G, some of them better than it,

You have a reasonable idea if not totally new,

The problem with your layout is that the wires are going to be quite a distance apart (in engineering terms) and wont pick the lock as you want,

If you look at the position of the 2 wires (in normal use) during picking, the wires are as close to each other as possable as the optimum picking state is for them both to be on the same axis,

Dont get me wrong, its good thinking and as i say been done before but for 5G locks, i will have a quick play this afternoon to try the idea out for the more awkard 7G,

[toomush2drink]

The top design is one i have already made and is sitting in my tool box. The only thing you need to do to improve it is make sure the bottom wire is unable to move, use some super glue or solder it, and then it will work fine. Nothing wrong with the design, engineering or otherwise as like a lot of things instead of finding faults before actually trying it ,try it then improve on it.

[Shrub]

Nothing wrong with the design, engineering or otherwise as like a lot of things instead of finding faults before actually trying it ,try it then improve on it.

Only trying to save time in the long run, i was right it will not work as shown above but yes i should have also given the solution to rectify the problem, i dont always have the time or inclination there and then to redesign people projects so that they will work.

In fact to make the tool easier and quicker to make along with making it easier to use, i would get rid of one of the wires and just solder a pin on the end to turn the curtain.

[Shrub]

any thoughts please gentlemen.

I only expressed my thoughts, sorry if you got upset.

[capt.dunc]

no problems shrub, the idea was to spot faults before wasting time making prototypes.

The problem with your layout is that the wires are going to be quite a distance apart (in engineering terms) and wont pick the lock as you want

If you look at the position of the 2 wires (in normal use) during picking, the wires are as close to each other as possable as the optimum picking state is for them both to be on the same axis

i think we have our wires crossed (pardon the pun)
this is a 2 in 1 pick not a curtain pick. the wires in the tube would touch each other and the wall of the tube, so they're as close as possible as is. i first learnt to pick non curtain locks with my bolt tensioning wire entering at the bottom of the key way to give as much space as possible for the lifting wire, and pinky and ken teach this as well. this is both wires as far apart as possible in terms of axises.
what do suggest instead of the souber as a 7g pick for non curtained locks?

to improve it is make sure the bottom wire is unable to move, use some super glue or solder it

i was trying to make something where the weakest point was the wire itself.

instead of finding faults before actually trying it ,try it then improve on it

i can't i don't have a piece of aerial or tubing lying around, and the nearest scrapies is over a hundred miles away.[/img]

[capt.dunc]

the only problem i can see at the moment is when a raising lever causes the bolt to shift, which may cause the tool to twist on it's axis slightly, so i've thought about a tip which will hold the tool square to the keyway

or for the first design, with a small cut out on the base side of the tube at the tip for the curve to pass through,

this would remove the need for any soldering at all, but requires finding wire and tubing of the right size.
ps help is appreciated, i'm not just being lazy but lack of resources locally means the prototypes aren't always easy to put together. i could make the design in fig 4 put it's a pain cutting grooves along shanks like that by hand

[Shrub]

I wasnt getting mixed up but did state the wrong thing when i said they need to be on the same axis, i to use 2 wires the same as you and everyone else what i meant to say was that only the lever lifter needs to move and the bolt thrower can be solid,

As i say you can make a 2in1 out of a key if you want to save money or just make your own in one of the other ways, 2in1's are so simple and easy to make all mine bar 1 are home made,

RB medical make some better tools than souber and 7G tools tend to be stocked by all the suppliers that sell 5g ones.

[Shrub]

B+Q have racks of tube etc there is a piece suitable for 7g, 5g and there may be a piece that has 4 groves down the length which you may be able to modify,

If materials realy are scarce then a key as i described above is probably the best option for you.

[capt.dunc]

there isn't a b&q for a hundred miles either.
i agree rb make a lovely 6g 2 in 1, but are they making a 7g now?

[Shrub]

I thought i noticed one in thier latest catalogue, i will check and get back to you,

The only design differance between a 2in1 and a curtain pick is the length of the bolt thrower as opposed to the length of the curtain turner,

I dont come across many 5 lever non curtain locks they are either 2 or 3 lever or bs locks so i just use wires when i do come across them,


This has given me an idea for an easy side line, I can make 2 in 1 picks for sale at around £20 each including p+p, do you think there is a market for them at this price or do you think people will just buy the commercial ones for the extra?

[MrB]

This has given me an idea for an easy side line, I can make 2 in 1 picks for sale at around £20 each including p+p, do you think there is a market for them at this price or do you think people will just buy the commercial ones for the extra?

Why not just try it out? You've nothing to lose. Make one, post it on the Buy and Sell forum with a photo, and see if there are any takers.

[Shrub]

MrB,
You are right and i have already started making a couple for that purpose, i can make them at such a good price i may even get them around the world for that price of postage ie same price where ever you live, i will have to do some sums before i offer that though,

Watch this space, dont hold your breath though Mick
I will post up in the sale section as you say, to be honest i cant think of any other outlet i would sell from as ebay is the devil and i wouldnt ever sell on there.

[Shrub]

Capt,
Im sorry but i still havent looked at the rb catalogue i will do it tonight,

Are you familiar with the overlifting technique for non bs locks? it doesnt work on every lock (that ive tried anyway) but does on a lot of them, i use a blank key thats been cut down to lift the levers and a wire to throw the bolt, the same bolt thrower wire as if you were using 2 wires. I havent used the commercial ones but they look like 2in1's but with a wide blade for the levers and im sure are far better to use than a blank key and wire

Im sure you know the system but thought i would suggest it just incase

[capt.dunc]

yes i'm aware, and have used overlifters in the past. i've got a couple of buttonhooks bent to the depth of lever packs for just this. i'll have a look whilst on line at rb's website.