picking law california

[E-Mind]

Hi,

I just came back from the local locksmith.
I wanted him to make me a bunch of keys cut so that I have a seperate key for every pin for every possible depth - so that I may use this set to cut a key by code on an automatic machine without the original.

He said that I need a locksmith license - I said no, because the law discusses intent - he was not convinced and said that police don't care about the intent part, and that if you don't have a licence they will do stuff to you just for possesion of picking tools.

My gut feeling tells me he's wrong, but nevertheless I thought I should ask here - what do you guys think - does he have a point? are cops really that bored? what are my options about getting a locksmith license?

Thanks!

[zekeo]

I think the law is a red herring here. What reason does the local locksmith have to know and trust you? No, the police aren't going to break down your door for owning these keys, but if you were to use them for nefarious purposes, the lockie wouldn't want to be held responsible. It's certainly possible that he would be. I would get to know the locksmith, maybe ask for old locks or something like that to start and build up trust before asking for something like this.

[Grudge]

I can't comment on the law (I don't even live in CA) but for your searching purposes those are called "Depth Keys" (or Spacing and Depth Keys). *cough*ebay*cough*

[E-Mind]

depth keys as I understand have all the pins cut to the same level.
I want for every pin position to have every depth cut.
I don't want a system that has all possible combinations.

basically, if you have 6 pins and 10 depths - that would be 60 keys.

i.e.
pin 1 depth 0 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 1 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 2 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 3 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 4 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 5 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 6 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 7 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 8 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 1 depth 9 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 0 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 1 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 2 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 3 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 4 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 5 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 6 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 7 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 8 all the rest of the pins untouched
pin 2 depth 9 all the rest of the pins untouched
.
.
.

This is so that I could make a duplicate without the original on an AUTOMATIC cutter, like the one in home depot.

[Grudge]

You are basically talking about a set of try-out keys, not depth keys. The law aside, I can see why a locksmith won't make you a set of try-outs. Also you should know that many key cuts are illegal (laws of physics, not CA) and the key would get stuck in the lock if you tried to use it.

[E-Mind]

this are not to be used inside a lock, just so that I can cut keys with a code without a code cutting machine but an automatic key cutting machine...

Why would he not want to make these keys for me? and what specific key cuts are illegal?

[Grudge]

Sorry to be 'Mr Confused', but if you don't need to actually open a lock using your try-out keys, I can only imagine a couple of possbilities: You already have a key to compare to (and then you could just duplicate that) or have disassembled the lock and are going from pin measurements to match to one of the try-outs. However if this is the case, you could just give a locksmith the key cut/pin size info and they would cut you one.

[cracksman]

I'm a little confused myself, is your plan to hold your different template keys over a blank to mark them and then hand grind them?

[E-Mind]

I would like to be able to cut a key based on a code on a regular automatic cutting machine available at home-depot

If I don't have the original key, and only the cut lengths, i.e. "the code", I need to go to a locksmith to cut the key - I don't want to do that, I want to go to home-depot, it's cheaper and closer.

[E-Mind]

lol

I would reuse the same blank with multiple originals each one being the correct key for the specific pin possition

[Grudge]

Oh and on the illegal cut question here is the super simplified version (about the only one I understand ):

Mechanically you can't have too much of a variation between two key cuts otherwise the angle of the slope the pin rides up and down becomes too great. In other words, place a 0 next to a 9 and you have created a pin trap. Each lock maker has a set of specifications on how much variation you can have from one cut to the next.

[E-Mind]

For example - if I have this code:

123456

I would cut a blank with the original being a key that has only the first pin cut to level 1.

Then I would recut that _same "blank" key_ with the key that has only the second pin cut to level 2 - now I have two pins cut to the right place.

I repeat the process 6 times - for all the pins, and I got the key cut to code.

I am charged only $1.35 for the single blank.

[E-Mind]

so that means I can not have a 9 cut by itself or else it will jam the key in the lock? (i.e. blank that has 1 pin cut to #9 in the middle for example)

[vector40]

Yes, E. That'd look like a lever lock key -- no ramps, just a vertical slice.

[E-Mind]

but wouldn't the slice be made at a V shape?