American combination w/ key

[geno]

If your not familiar, American makes a combination lock that has a small keyhole for access (mainly used in schools where administrators want to be have access to all locks)

The keyway is very small, so its hard to get picks and a wrench in.

I only have a few homebrew picks. Since there is no way to fit any of my picks in there with a wrench I just used a very crude rake type pick and put some turning tension on it while wiggling it around.

I was having trouble at first. Until I realized it doesnt act like a typical lock.
The shackle isnt spring loaded and they keyway barely turns.

There isnt any sort of spring to return the keyway back to the locked position, so once it gets started you can remove the rake and finish up with the wrench.

[Chrispy]

Have you seen the key? What does that look like? How many pins do you think? Personally, I've never seen one, so any pics, etc, would be great.

[geno]

Have you seen the key? What does that look like? How many pins do you think? Personally, I've never seen one, so any pics, etc, would be great.

I have seen a key. It looks like a miniature masterlock key. Im fairly sure it has 3 pins.

Here is a pic of the keyway. Thats a master #5 to the right of it for size reference.

[Chrispy]

Cheerz. If it has three pins and the pin combo isn't high-low-high etc., you could pick it with the wrench alone. Just jiggle and turn (it would have to be a small variation in pin heights to work).

[kodierer]

I haven't done the american, but I have done master combo locks with the keyway on the back. I had to use a slim line tension wrench, and a small half diamond. That wasn't difficult to pick, but yes fitting in standard tools is near impossible, and manuevering them is impossible.
If you are just trying to open it, then you may want to look into padlocks shims, and if your in for fun then maybe manipulation.
If your picking the back just for the novelty of it like I did with the master combo, then I suggest a slim tension wrench.

Also if you want a key you can obtain a blank for this particular lock, and then impression it.
For a lock that small you would want a small fine cut round file.

[Chrispy]

For a lock that small you would want a small fine cut round file.

Like a needle file.

[geno]

I haven't done the american, but I have done master combo locks with the keyway on the back. I had to use a slim line tension wrench, and a small half diamond. That wasn't difficult to pick, but yes fitting in standard tools is near impossible, and manuevering them is impossible.
If you are just trying to open it, then you may want to look into padlocks shims, and if your in for fun then maybe manipulation.
If your picking the back just for the novelty of it like I did with the master combo, then I suggest a slim tension wrench.

Also if you want a key you can obtain a blank for this particular lock, and then impression it.
For a lock that small you would want a small fine cut round file.

Padlock shims take the fun out of it. I wonder what would happen if I walked into a hardware store and asked for a blank?

[geno]

I haven't done the american, but I have done master combo locks with the keyway on the back. I had to use a slim line tension wrench, and a small half diamond. That wasn't difficult to pick, but yes fitting in standard tools is near impossible, and manuevering them is impossible.
If you are just trying to open it, then you may want to look into padlocks shims, and if your in for fun then maybe manipulation.
If your picking the back just for the novelty of it like I did with the master combo, then I suggest a slim tension wrench.

Also if you want a key you can obtain a blank for this particular lock, and then impression it.
For a lock that small you would want a small fine cut round file.

Padlock shims take the fun out of it. I wonder what would happen if I walked into a hardware store and asked for a blank?

[Keyring]

(Assume the triple posting was an accident!) I wondered about this (getting blanks) too. I was in our local hardware store (in England) buying something, and I said 'By the way would it be possible to get a couple of Yale Y1 blanks, I want to try my hand at impressioning'. The only worries the guy had was that I might not know the standard cut depths. I got the blanks for 20p each ( about 15c).

[geno]

(Assume the triple posting was an accident!) I wondered about this (getting blanks) too. I was in our local hardware store (in England) buying something, and I said 'By the way would it be possible to get a couple of Yale Y1 blanks, I want to try my hand at impressioning'. The only worries the guy had was that I might not know the standard cut depths. I got the blanks for 20p each ( about 15c).

Thats also a good point. How would I know how deep to cut the key? I think I will read up on impressioning and give it a go.

[geno]

(Assume the triple posting was an accident!) I wondered about this (getting blanks) too. I was in our local hardware store (in England) buying something, and I said 'By the way would it be possible to get a couple of Yale Y1 blanks, I want to try my hand at impressioning'. The only worries the guy had was that I might not know the standard cut depths. I got the blanks for 20p each ( about 15c).

Thats also a good point. How would I know how deep to cut the key? I think I will read up on impressioning and give it a go.

[Keyring]

How would I know how deep to cut the key?

There are lists of positions and depths floating about for various locks. Don't have a reference to hand, you'll have to search or ask. But it is only a time saver, not an essential. If you don't know you just have to file down at the mark a little bit at a time. If you know the standard cuts you file down to the next standard depth, measuring with an accurate measuring tool, which is always worth having.

(By the way is the board screwed up or are you really posting each post three times?)

[kodierer]

You can walk into any hardware store and purchase any blanks you wish(providing that they carry them).
My problem with getting blanks from the hardware store, is that they are almost always the hard nickel kind.
I get brass ones off e-bay.
If the key blade is sharpened so you can see the marks, then you file a little bit at a time each time you see a mark. No depth knowledge needed. See a mark file it. Don't see a mark, then don't file it.

[Santos718]

I had one of the combo/keyway locks on my locker when I was in highschool. I didn't have the ones you posted. But I'll find a pic.

[n2oah]

My problem with getting blanks from the hardware store, is that they are almost always the hard nickel kind.

You can cast your own blanks in lead,and various other alloys, as long as you have a regular blank. If you do lead, the key will probably bend from all of the twisting and turning.