Decoding

by **CitySpider** » 11 Jan 2004 17:09

hozer2k wrote:After you have picked a lock, I am sure there is a way to decode it so you can make a key from it. Other than special tooling, are there any good and relatively easy methods for doing this?

Short of taking it apart, to the best of my knowledge, no, there is not a good, relatively easy way of doing it.

by **Chucklz** » 11 Jan 2004 17:17

Before we start some kind of shouting match, lets all see if we can figure out what we are all trying to say. Hozer2k it seems to me that what you wish to do is to take a lock, pick it, then after you pick it to determine what the correct key bitting is for the lock you picked.

1.) You can dissasemble the lock, as though you were rekeying it and simply measure pin height.

2.) The depth key method I gave you was for pin tumbler locks (4,5,6, 7...whatever.....they all can be tested in this way)

3.) Marso's suggestion was that in the case that the lock had been pinned with a color coded kit, you could by knowing the brand of lock, and owning a color coded pin kit....... match the colors of the pins to depths.

THe clay/wax/anything soft in the lock method probably is going to just gunk up your lock at best. Without any specialized tools at all, you are limited to information from your picks. Ie, 3 is cut lower than 1 etc.

If what Ive said here is unclear, or not what you intended to ask, please let us know, so that we can help if we can.

by **hozer2k** » 11 Jan 2004 17:33

OK

1) Yes, this would work, but this is definately more involved that what I am looking for.

2) I understood that, but it is quite limited. It may be a starting point, but not really a solution. Like I said before, if I were wanting to do an approximation, foil impressions would be much closer.

3) I got this too, but I have never seen one of these, so it is once again quite limted. Even if it I had all the info, it would still be a rare occasion.

Maybe like Cityspider said, there is no good way. I have seen some tooling that will do this, but I think it is quite pricey.

I still think something like a thermoplastic would work. You could embed a heating element in it and put it in the lock and then when it gets soft, work it in there. Then turn the heating element off and let it cool to solid and pull it out. This is just a brainstorm, but I think there has to be something. I will come up with something, but was just wondering if someone already came up with a clever idea to do it.

by **CitySpider** » 11 Jan 2004 23:41

hozer2k wrote:I still think something like a thermoplastic would work. You could embed a heating element in it and put it in the lock and then when it gets soft, work it in there. Then turn the heating element off and let it cool to solid and pull it out. This is just a brainstorm, but I think there has to be something. I will come up with something, but was just wondering if someone already came up with a clever idea to do it.

Would you mind explaining why that would work? I'm having trouble picturing it.

And Chuck:

Thanks for the cool head. We need more of those around here, and heaven knows I'm not one of them.

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 0:05

Basically you heat the material up til it is soft and able to be formed with a heating element. At this point you form it to the pins then let the material cool and pull it out.

by **CitySpider** » 12 Jan 2004 0:07

hozer2k wrote:Basically you heat the material up til it is soft and able to be formed with a heating element. At this point you form it to the pins then let the material cool and pull it out.

Right, that I get. What I'm not sure about is why the pins would be in the correct position to tell you anything useful.

by **joecool2727** » 12 Jan 2004 0:16

I did do a search on foil impressining but all i got were discussions about it, not how to do it. So could someone please explain what it is?

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 0:16

Hmmm, maybe read the initial post. You would pick it first.

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 0:19

Joe, I would suggest you ask in a new thread or ask in the foil impressioning thread, but here is the jist. You do it just like regular impressioning, if you dont know what this is, read the other threads. You need a special tool though, it looks like a comb...there was thread that had link to a presentation to the falle tool by tobias, the guy from security.org. The other thread also has an explanation of how to use it.

by **CitySpider** » 12 Jan 2004 0:29

hozer2k wrote:Hmmm, maybe read the initial post. You would pick it first.

Understand that too, but the bottom pins in a picked lock don't stay in the picked position. They free-float. If you look into the keyway of a picked lock, it looks exactly like the keyway of a non-picked lock, and doesn't look like the pins would look if the key was in it and invisible.

Am I missing the point?

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 0:47

You would just push the soft material up.

Am "I" missing something?

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 0:47

Obviously with it slightly turned.

by **marso** » 12 Jan 2004 1:39

Hey hozer2k sorry about the short and snappy replys. Running late for bus, just got back into town all that.

Chucklz i would add a (4) Impressioning

Hozer2k, why not impression the lock, have you tried with this one? did it work?

Can anyone here work out cuts based on feel?

Varjeal and other locksmiths, how many of you guys use color pins on a regular basis? Anyone who looks at keyways often (specially rekeyed locks) is it rare that you come across colored pins? what countries?

I agree you may be able to work out height based on a picked lock turned slightly but no way in hell will I be able to do that by hand. Possibly be able to make a tool but I see it being a more advanced machinest.

And i would be hesistant to put any putty like substance in the lock i see it only ending in trouble.

Sorry again hozer2k.

by **CitySpider** » 12 Jan 2004 8:38

hozer2k wrote:You would just push the soft material up.

Am "I" missing something?

That's starting to make sense. So you push the pins up, the pins (bottom pins only) impact against the side of the plug/shell/whatever, and you wait for the material to harden so that it'll tell you the heights of the pins.

Now how do you get your putty back out without wrecking the mold you've made?

by **hozer2k** » 12 Jan 2004 10:49

Well, its not really a puddy, its a thermoplastic. This means it will go back to original state when cool. It would basically look something like a plastic spoon.

I learned the other trick when doing the foiling impressioning. After you get the impression, then turn it back to its "vertical" or "locked" position so the pins are free to move again. Then you slide a very thin shim along side of impression to press all the pins up and slide them both out.

However, I have come up with another simpler idea, I will try it out see how it goes.

Decoding

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