ACE II Can't Pick It!! Suggestions??

by **noorudeenshakur** » 22 Jul 2005 18:43

Hello, I finally managed to buy a couple of Ace II locks to play with.

I believe one is offset but the other looks to be a standard 7 pin, but I cant tell for sure. The I believe is offset is in the large picture. Is that right or left offset?

Ok I have a 2 Part question, first how do you tell if the pins are offset, is it really easy to see?

Second If they are offset can my HPC quick reset pick do them?

The HPC quick reset instructions say its capable of doing small bore, (it does them well) and it also says its capable of doing offset once you remove the torque pin, which I have. Anyone have any experience with this pick and offset locks?

When Picking the locks, all 7 feelers are getting moved back, so I assume it is possible to pick based on that.

I have heard these are tough locks and they really are.

I have tried lose tension, which didnt go over well, as the springs in the ace 2 are just so strong they pushed all the feelers back. I tried very tight but 3 feelers arent moving, I tried in the middle where they all went but after 10 mins non stop I have given up.

I'm not sure if I can even pick it with the pick I have. I've never had this much trouble. The longest its taken me is just over a minute to open a tubular. Do they really take this long to pick?

Any suggestions? I'll try to get some images of the locks for you

thanks

by **raimundo** » 24 Jul 2005 9:46

take a straight blade of sweeper bristle or wiper stiffener, and press down on each of the pins in your AceII, note the resistance of the pins, (strength of the springs) mark on a sheet of paper the locations of strong springs, figure out some way of locking an individual slider on the tool perhaps by wedging the tip of a tooth pick under it (carefully not to bend the slider, or figure out some method of locking the sliders individually, Then attempt to pick the Ace II, lock down the sliders that you believe are at the shear, then pay special attention to the ones with the strong springs, (this lock has a mix of hard pressure stainless steel springs and softer copper springs mixed specifically to resist the pick tool by making it difficult to adjust tension)
I am not saying this method is known, I am just brainstorming about how it might be done, it requires some invention of your part.
Another thing that might be tried is to make a feeler with a straight blade that goes in to push on a single pin, and a second piece of metal alongside it that can be made to measure the depth and lock on at the suspected shear, (I am thinking of two pieces of sweeper bristle or spring steel, securely rubberbanded together with one of them going straight down onto the pin and the other with a 90 degree bend that will not go into the lock, or perhaps a larger piece of metal or wood, that will not enter the keyhole, a piece of bamboo chopstick perhaps, push the straight blade onto a spring, and feel for the shear, when you find it, set the stop so that the piece of metal extends from the part that cannot enter the keyway at the measured length. with this tool if you can find the shears of all the pins, (you will have to find a way to tension it,or just wiggle the stem of the lock, to aid in feeling the depth,) after you find the shear depth on each of the pins, you will have the code and can set your pick to that

by **toomush2drink** » 24 Jul 2005 16:01

Just wind the tension on yourpick right up so the sliders will only move with a lot pressure and it should open.

by **noorudeenshakur** » 26 Jul 2005 1:19

Hi, I cant for the life of me get the locks to open. I dont know why. I'm assuming I have the wrong pick, and Im unable to open offset tubulars with the pick I have. its the HPC quick reset, (sorry this is the best image I could find on the net of it)

I dont know if this will work on it. It's a beautiful pick, I love it. Very high quality, and works very well except on these 2 locks.

It says in the instructions it can do offset pins once you remove the torque pin, but the locks just wont open. I've played for 10 mins straight a few times now and still no go. Either these are really tough locks, or I just dont have the proper tool, or I suck. lol I really have never run into this before, I mean Iv'e heard ace II's were tought but this doesnt seem right. I think I have the wrong pick for them.

I'll post back if I ever get it open. Thanks for the suggestions

by **zeke79** » 26 Jul 2005 8:14

Ace II type locks are specifically designed to defeat those types of picks. That is the idea behind the installation of a mixture of strong and weak springs in the lock. If you adjust the pick to handle the stronger springs the weaker springs will never push the feelers back and vise versa. The peterson pro-1 is the only pick I know of that is designed to be able to pick virtually all tubular style locks effectively regardless of weak and strong spring installation. It is an expensive pick but is very easy to use.

by **Mad Mick** » 26 Jul 2005 19:14

In this situation with AceII's differing springs, the ability to pick manually definitely has it's benefits. The time lost experimenting with the wonder pick is insignificant from a hobby standpoint, but could result in a financial loss when confronted professionally. I'd recommend learning the manual method, if only to save time where the lock is going to be replaced regardless. If you want to decode the bitting to reproduce a key, then that's a different matter.

by **sillyboy** » 27 Jul 2005 13:06

I know of a german inventor who has made a pick for these that work all locks like this.... its works with toothbrush bristles. You just brush it over the lock really fast while applying tenshun an within seconds she pops open. I am currently getting a pick like this sent to me. I tried making my own but didnt quite work

by **sublime progie** » 27 Jul 2005 16:04

I know of a german inventor who has made a pick for these that work all locks like this.... its works with toothbrush bristles. You just brush it over the lock really fast while applying tenshun an within seconds she pops open. I am currently getting a pick like this sent to me. I tried making my own but didnt quite work

if i know what you are talking about then i think you may be mistaken. i think the brush picks are only for straight pin tumblers, not tubular locks. if i am wrong though could you please post the info, or site name. I would be quite interested in getting one of my own :lol:

by **noorudeenshakur** » 27 Jul 2005 19:38

I believe I know of these fiber picks you are talking about. Pickmasters makes them.

They do not currently offer anything with regards to tubular locks. I read about these fiber picks and they sound interesting. They work like raking. If you know of a different place that ofers these picks in a tubular post it here so we can check them out please.

I would love to get my hands on the Peterson pro pick but I cant justify the expense for one right now. I know I wouldnt run into a tubular I couldnt pick with it.

I will give Ace credit with their Ace II's They did a fine job. It's a huge improvement over just a standard run of the mill tubular. I can not open them with my pick.........Yet.........I say yet because I shall never concede defeat to any lock!)

Thanks for the tips and feedback guys

by **sillyboy** » 28 Jul 2005 1:06

Guys get with the times..... Pickmasters have been around for years, I bought almost all there picks they sell. Works really well too, in fact to well, I felt that using the pickmaster picks it was hurting my picking skills, landed up trading some stuff for them from a kid I know.

But no the pick I am talking about is not that one..... I have been asked not to show anyone this model till he's patented it. Trust me it will pick all tubular locks

by **sublime progie** » 28 Jul 2005 6:15

i am not surprized that you dont still have the pick so you could show us

by **sillyboy** » 28 Jul 2005 6:19

Sublime PM me a mailing address and u will get wht you want

by **raimundo** » 28 Jul 2005 7:17

the fiber pick which no one else has ever spoken of with first hand experience is marketed under the name of pickmasters, but long long before this pick appeared, there was/is a company called pickmasters that makes a line of tubular picks. to see ads for these picks, google for "steve arnolds gun room" in dexter oregon, and look at the picks page, go to the bottom of the page and click on page 2. this is where the pickmasters tubulars are sold. Before the internet, you could mail an inqury to this company and recieve a xerox of some very interesting information on the variety of the tubular picks they have, and this information also tells a lot about the variety of tubular locks that exist. in fact, this xerox is the single most complete source on all the types of tubular locks I have ever seen. there are more than you suspected.

by **Nasydave** » 29 Jul 2005 22:19

As far as being able to tell if the lock is an offset or not, simply note as you look at the lock whether there is a pin directly opposite from the notch for the torsion pin. If there is a pin DIRECTLY opposite, it is a normal 7 pin. Otherwise it is either an 8 or offset.

Also, I think I can tell by the outer rim of your lock that it is an ace FLEX. I haven't taken one of these apart yet, but they do seem to be really difficult. You may notice that as you push in, the lock goes backwards, that's the flex part.

ACE II Can't Pick It!! Suggestions??

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