Key Bumping

[n2oah]

If I cut a key totally flat (the opposite of a blank) and take it to Home Depot to be copied, will the key machine cut the blank to 9 depth and have the ridges in between the cuts? Just wondering because I'm trying to make bumpkeys for all of the locks I have.

[Varjeal]

The key duplicator will only duplicate what you've done, it won't correct mistakes (unless by accident and the machine isn't calibrated correctly) and it shouldn't modify what you've already hand-filed.

[E-Mind]

The way a duplicator works is by having a cutting disc that cuts the blank, but it is attached to a peice that follows the original key's bumps to lift/lower the cutting disc from/to the blank. whatever you put as the original, it would cut on the blank - it has no idea where a bump should start or end.

I assume code-cutting machines are different since they need to know this information.

[n2oah]

I do know a key shop that has a code reader, so I'll guess I'll take my bumpkey there.

[noorudeenshakur]

I successfully bumped a schlage today. I had extreme difficulty before this as my bumpkey wasnt made correctly. It was simply cut to code 99999. I didnt remove anything off the shoulder or tip. I would just insert it all the way into the lock and pull back one pin, then smack it using my thumb to keep light tension on it. I never had any luck this way at all.

I removed a little off the top part of the shoulder and the bottom part as well. I also cut the tip with my dremel and presto it worked. I also switched from using a butter knife to the hanlde of a hammer. I also had new confidence when I watched Barry bump one in the bumping revisited.

That actually was what gave me all the new confidence to try again. I'm going to Home Depo later on to get anopther bump key cut from my original before I destroy it. Ill look around for some PVC plastic and try to make my own tomahawk with cutting board like in the video. That should help too. I've managed to bump a yale with the y1 keyway, a weiser and now a schlage. I will try make some video's of the bumps shortly and post them here. Hopefully others will do the same with their sucesses

You really need to have some confidence when you are doing it. I dont know why but I think that really helped me out after I saw berry bump that schlage. Honestly I dont know what it was as I changed so many things I was doing at once, but Im betting it had to do with the shoulder of the key and my confidence.

[E-Mind]

Cool! Glad to hear you got it working

How much did you remove from the shoulder and how much from the tip?
Also, which blank did you use and where did you hit the key and at what angle?

[E-Mind]

Also, how much turning pressure did you apply? was it constant or did it increase imidiately after you hit the key?
Did you have to hit the key many times or was one time enough?
If you need to hit the key many times, do you pull back the key a little while keeping the turning pressure after each hit?
How hard do you hit the key?

[n2oah]

I'm trying to bump a CES euro cylinder, but no luck so far. I used a hand file and filed all of the cuts to 9 depth. All of the cuts are within .005 inches of the original 9. I pulled the key back a little tiny bit and then tapped it with the handle of a screwdriver, but still no luck.
E-mind, you're supposed to file .25mm off of the shoulder.

[E-Mind]

I tried 0.25mm with no luck.
I thought maybe it should be different for schlage (since I guess it depends on the angle of the cuts which could be different for schlage than what toool tried...)

[yippeegollies]

Incredible....I've been a locksmith for 35 years and this is the first time I've heard of this. I watched the movie on that link to toool.nl. It explains everything you need to know.

Even more incredible.....It works!! I went over to the code cutter and cut a Schlage key to a 10,10,10,10,10 (as they explain in the movie). I offset the spacing from the shoulder a bit so I wouldn't have to file back the shoulder or the tip. (my own idea) and it worked after two taps. I am totally flabbergasted.

Yip

[Mad Mick]

No dis-respect yip, but we can sometimes learn much from those outside of an industry. We generally tend to get into a comfort-zone, where we are familiar with what we know, and what we want to teach. The locksmith trade has traditionally been a closed-circuit industry, where only 'deserving' candidates have been afforded the knowledge from the 'old masters'. With the advent of global 'locksports', a multitude of different approaches have become available to those in the trade, and those outside of it. The common-good of this partnership is the sharing of knowlege pertaining to exploits, and the possible methods of closing down these exploits on future production models. Look at the suggestions from Dr Matt Blaze & Eric Michaud, in reference to the Mul-t-locks.

[yippeegollies]

You're absolutely right MadMick. Seems like a good trade-off to me. I can share some of my traditional knowledge in exchange for some "outside the box" ideas from the members.

Yip

[n2oah]

Eric Michaud, in reference to the Mul-t-locks.

The Michaud attack was obselete when it first came out. Why would Mul-t-lock want to fool around with some kid when they have a much larger problem on their hands (bumping)?

[devildog]

We're all about 'outside the box' !!

If you knew all the different oddball items that lock smithing tools have been made out of by members on here...oooiii....



Wiper blades and sweeper bristles and dipsticks, oh my!

Coat hangers and paper clips and piano wire, oh my!

Soda cans and disk covers and pocket knives, oh my!

Hacksaw blades and steak knives and crochet needles, oh my!

Feeler guages and exacto knives and letter openers, oh my!

Sewing needles and plumbing snakes and nail files, oh my!

Bra stades and bobby pins and safety pins, oh my!

Twisty-ties and scissors and tweezers, oh my!



Ok, that's quite enough of that; if you wish to read about all of this stuff, and the stories behind where I got some of those, check out the 'Strangest thing you have ever used to make a pick thread' here:

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=2580

[vector40]

The Michaud attack was obselete when it first came out. Why would Mul-t-lock want to fool around with some kid when they have a much larger problem on their hands (bumping)?

Obsolete when it came out? It wasn't universally applicable, but that's not exactly something many people would be happy banking on for a "high-security" lock.