Baldwin Locks

[PickTrick]

I got a Baldwin lock on my house, i'm curious if it's secure? how hard are these locks to pick, maybe someone can answer from experience.

[logosys]

I got a Baldwin lock on my house, i'm curious if it's secure? how hard are these locks to pick, maybe someone can answer from experience.

Baldwins are medium security. They have a Schlage C keyway with 5 spool(?) pins in them generally. The big advantage to Baldwin is they're pretty. Although more secure than a Kwikset, they are a far cry from a Medeco.

As far as picking them goes, they can be picked, but you have to have a good deal of experience with security pins.

[Darek84CJ]

I have never seen a security pin in a Baldwin. Baldwin is basicly a better quality Schlage with extreme hi-low set pins. Baldwins have tighter tolerances, and the hi-low set pins make raking almost impossible.

[DanD]

Though still popular because people like their looks and contractors like their prices, most Baldwins no longer have the quality they were once known for. Baldwin mortise locks are still high quality, but the current models of key-in-knob locks likely to be found on a house are a combination of Baldwin's finishes and Weiser inner workings (though still Schlage C keyways). Created for the home inmprovement wharehouse market.

[Cman22]

Baldwins a fairly secure but easy to pick with practice. If someone really wanted to get into yyour house they probably wouldn't bother with the lock. They would probably breaka window or drill the lock.

[Chucklz]

My Baldwin KIK is pinned 64966, not too hard from the MACS perspective. There are security pins, but not all 5, but this may just be my lock. I haven't picked it yet, mainly for a lack of trying, but it shouldnt be impossible, just annoying.

[E-Mind]

Are there any specs on how locks are pined by default?

specifically - making sure that there is a #9 somewhere and #6 or less on both sides of it, etc...?

This can really reduce the keyspace of the lock.

Assuming just the #9 requirement would be (9^4) * 5 instead of 9^5 - right?

almost cutting the number of combinations in half - then add the requirements of having 1 of 3 possible cuts on each side of the #9 cut - would considerablly reduce the number of possible combinations - would someone care to do the math?

btw... I tried picking a boldwin a couple of days ago, unsuccessfuly maybe if I were to keep trying, but after 10 minutes or so, I felt uncomfortable due to friends watching my shoulder, luckily there was a window open (a friend got locked out...)

[E-Mind]

just rethinking about my previous post - if there is such a requirement, it would mean that the #9 cut has to be the 3rd cut, and cuts 2 and 4 can be lets say 1 of 4 cuts (3,4,5,6) and cuts 1 and 5 can be 1 of 9 (I'm assuming 9 and not 10 due to MACS restriction... am I right here?)

That would be only (4^2) * (9^2) possible combinations == only 1296 possible keys... right?

if so, on avarage you would have to try only half of these == 648

assuming you switch keys at a rate of 1 key every 5 seconds (you're an old man) - you could try all keys in less than an hour...

then again, this is assuming there are such pin restrictions...

[n2oah]

Baldwins are okay as far as security goes. Their mortise trim boxes are quite decent, but only if you can get a nice cylinder in them.
Does Baldwin make any grade 1 deadbolts?

[E-Mind]

Just for the fun of it... I wrote this little code to calculate the number of combinations possible when certain pin cut restrictions apply.
I've commented this heavily so that anyone can understand and learn a little programming...

Code: Select all

//include C's standard input and output library - used by the printf function
#include <stdio.h>

// != is not equal, || is OR ===> when the bellow statement is false, we are finished.
#define NOT_END a != MAX_A || b != MAX_B || c != MAX_C || d != MAX_D || e != MAX_E

//define the MAX cuts of each pin
#define MAX_A 9
#define MAX_B 6
#define MAX_C 9
#define MAX_D 6
#define MAX_E 9

//define the MIN cuts of each pin
#define MIN_A 1
#define MIN_B 3
#define MIN_C 9
#define MIN_D 3
#define MIN_E 1

//our main function - returns an integers (0 if ok, -1 if error)
int main()
{
   //declare the pin variables
   int a, b, c, d, e;
   int count=0;
   
   //initialize the pin variables to their minimum cuts
   a = MIN_A;
   b = MIN_B;
   c = MIN_C;
   d = MIN_D;
   e = MIN_E;

   //do a sanity check...
   if (MIN_A > MAX_A || MIN_B > MAX_B || MIN_C > MAX_C || MIN_D > MAX_D || MIN_E > MAX_E)
   {
      //print error message
      printf("Error - Check your variable pin cut restrictions.\n");
      printf("A minimum cut can not be larger than a maximum cut!\n");

      //return error
      return(-1);
   }

   //loop whatever is in the do block as long as the following while statement is true
   do {
      //increment number of combinations counter
      count++;
      //if last pin cut e is at it's maximum cut, and NOT_END statement is true
      if (e == MAX_E && (NOT_END))
      {
         //set pin e to minimum cut, and increment pin d
         e = MIN_E;
         d++;
      }
      else //pin e is not at it's maximum cut, so we increment pin e's cut
         e++;
      //if pin d cut is over it's maximum cut
      if (d == MAX_D+1)
      {
         //set pin d to minimum cut, and increment pin c
         d = MIN_D;
         c++;
      }
      //if pin c cut is over it's maximum cut
      if (c == MAX_C+1)
      {
         //set pin c to minimum cut, and increment pin b
         c = MIN_C;
         b++;
      }
      //if pin b cut is over it's maximum cut
      if (b == MAX_B+1)
      {
         //set pin b to minimum cut, and increment pin a
         b = MIN_B;
         a++;
      }
   } while (NOT_END); //keep looping as long as the NOT_END statement is true

   //increment number of combinations counter for last combination
   count++;

   //print the variables as a decimal number (%d) followed by a newline (\n)
   printf("Number of combinations: %d\n",count);
   printf("On avarage would take %d tries.\n",count/2);

   //everything ok, we're done.
   return(0);
}

result:

Number of combinations: 1296
On avarage would take 648 tries.
Press any key to continue

[Minion]

Holy crap.... I've never seen code commented that simply!

It looks like a tutorial for writing c!

[HeadHunterCEO]

cylinder is normal

the lock itself it made very well of good materials

[Keyring]

E-Mind: It's a pity that noone has read this thread who knows the answer to your question as to whether there are restrictions on pin combinations (for a given lock) . I can imagine that a manufacturer wouldn't want to make it known as it reduces the number of combinations they can print on the lock packaging.

Only rekeyable locks are likely to have published information which locksmiths would need when rekeying them.

I suppose though that there may be a physical limitation between adjacent keys to prevent difficult insertion /removal.

Is the only way to examine all the keys on sale in the DIY shop and have everyone write them all down?

On the subject, I think that master keyed systems offer an interesting case for analysis. For a start; in most pin positions 2 different heights will work. And secondly, when I stayed in a motel recently, I noticed that all the keys opened the front door. The front door lock was just fitted with 1 pin at the back. So that is one less pin to wonder about on all the other locks.

[E-Mind]

Holy crap.... I've never seen code commented that simply!

It looks like a tutorial for writing c!

at first, I wanted the code, once the code was done, I thought of posting it here, since it might be useful for someone else.
Then I thought, maybe people here don't know programming... so I figured, might as well comment it to be easy for anyone to understand and maby someone who once considered learning programming and reads the forum would find it useful for his learning - picking two locks with one hand... or was it two birds with one stone? whatever...

The intention was to make it be like a tutorial for those who want to learn C - so I am glad you found it to be as such

Keyring - I would assume that locksmiths that deal with many locks of the same manufacturer would have seen too many keys for the same lock to be able to count and would have noticed such restrictions - it should not take long until someone that knows and don't care sharing posts a reply...