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Modeled Falle pick in 3D

When it comes down to it there is nothing better than manual tools for your Lock pick Set, whether they be retail, homebrew, macgyver style. DIY'ers look here.

Postby E-Mind » 23 Aug 2005 18:48

a mechanical engineer inspected my lockpick and said that a waterjet cutter is what is used to make these. I asked him the same question about accuracy and he said that they are very persice. They cost ~$100k but what is usually done is you go with a project to someone who has it and you pay a fee for them to cut as many pieces as you need...

found this with a little google search:
Jet Edge® is a leading manufacturer of ultra-high pressure (UHP) waterjet cutting. Jet Edge abrasivejet cutting systems use a combination of water and garnet to cut through materials considered unmachineable by conventional cutting methods. Using small amounts of water while eliminating the friction caused by tool-to-part contact, abrasivejet cutting avoids thermal damage which can adversely affect metallurgic properties in materials being cut. The ability to pierce through material also eliminates the need and cost of drilling starter holes. Because abrasivejet cuts with a narrow kerf, parts can be tightly nested thus maximizing material usage.
Information from Jet Edge
http://www.imp.mtu.edu/information/waterj.htm
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. - Winston Churchill
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Postby wsbpress » 23 Aug 2005 19:01

Thanks E-Mind, that's great info. I am definitely looking into the water-cutting process. I know that there are at least a few places that perform water-cutting locally. Depending on the cost this may be the best option. I may have to sell some kits or something to buffer the cash loss.

I am curious how the engineer could tell that the tools were water-cut. I would think that a manufacturer would probably just stamp the tools out.
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Postby Mad Mick » 23 Aug 2005 20:15

From what I understand of the water-jet cutting process, a little finish work may be required. I am inclined to believe that the jet does not precisely cut perpendicular to the tip, and in fact leaves a slight taper on the trailing edges of the workpiece...

Depending on the amount of tapering induced, a slightly larger template may be required to achieve the actual finished dimensions. Material thickness versus degree of tapering should be taken into consideration.

However, with the thickness of materials we normally work with, the tapering may be considered negligible.

wsbpress wrote:I would think that a manufacturer would probably just stamp the tools out.

This is the norm AFAIK with the 'regular' picks, unless you include Falles etc. (Anyone with Falles care to speculate?) Stamping usually leaves raised edges on the opposite (bottom) face of the pick, and a slight curve on the edges of the face that was stamped (top). For those who don't understand the process, I'll try a little crude Ascii art of a picks' cross-section:
Code: Select all
  Stamped:
 ___________________
/-------------------\

  Not stamped:
 ____________________
|____________________|



From what I have learned, water-jet cutting leaves this sort of lower edge (exaggerated):
Code: Select all
     Jet
  ____|____
 |___/|\___| - workpiece


HTH
Image If it ain't broke.....pull it down and see how it works anyway!
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Postby cracksman » 23 Aug 2005 21:34

I think the Falles are made on some sort
of a "tree". The top middle of them are very
rough and it is obvious that they were ground
off of the tree.

The edges of the picks are not uniform either,
looking at the pick on edge it actually has three
levels: ---> i!i in otherwords, the center of the
edge is raised a mm or two above the sides.

I don't have my digital camera at the moment or
this would make more sense. I also don't think
it is necessary to be so precise.
Image
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Postby n2oah » 23 Aug 2005 22:01

I need a 3D solid modeling tutorial. I'm stuck in 2D :cry:
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby wsbpress » 23 Aug 2005 22:15

I need a 3D solid modeling tutorial. I'm stuck in 2D


Cheer up buddy, there's good news :D . 2D is really all you need for the majority of lockpicking tools! :wink:
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Postby zeke79 » 23 Aug 2005 22:24

wsbpress, i think you tried to upload your drawing to the ftp site am I correct? If so, all that was uploaded was an empty folder. You need to zip the folder before you upload it, that usually helps with that problem as you do not have permission to create directories :wink: .
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Postby wsbpress » 23 Aug 2005 22:35

Zeke79,
Done. Thanks.
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Postby devildog » 24 Aug 2005 10:58

Say, would the kind of machining shop that would have CAD and a waterjet or CO2 cutting laser also be capable of getting whatever exotic material it is that you wanted to play around with, i.e. titanium, magnesium, superalloys, etc.?
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Postby n2oah » 24 Aug 2005 11:17

devildog wrote:Say, would the kind of machining shop that would have CAD and a waterjet or CO2 cutting laser also be capable of getting whatever exotic material it is that you wanted to play around with, i.e. titanium, magnesium, superalloys, etc.?


Probably, but you'd better be ready for the price.
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby devildog » 24 Aug 2005 11:47

hehehe :twisted:

And if I had titanium Falles you'd be jealous wouldn't you? WOULDN'T YOU?! :D :P
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Postby wsbpress » 24 Aug 2005 12:39

One question, one comment:

Q:
Despite being lighter, and the blatantly obvious extreme cool factor, what would be the advantage of titanium or say magnesium picks? Is there a metal that is more responsive and gives more tactile feedback than steel?

C:
School just started for me today. I am enrolled in an Advanced Manufacturing course, listed under Computer Science (my major), offered for this semester only (special topics). Among other manufacturing methods available is wire-EDM. If there is a lockpicking-god, he obviously wants me to make titanium Falle's.
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Postby devildog » 24 Aug 2005 18:56

Pheeww!! Ok, I'm going to quote a few short things from the best explanations I could find, link to the websites, and then link to some wikipedia articles that might help explain things further. Basically, the major advantage of titanium in it's application as a material for lockpicks is, are you ready? Listening? Take note of the next VERY important term: TENSILE YIELD STRENGTH :arrow:

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength): "The tensile strength where the material becomes plastic is called yield tensile strength. This is the point where the deformation (strain) of the material is unrecovered, and the work produced by external forces is not stored as elastic energy but will lead to contraction (see Poisson), cracks and ultimately failure of the construction. Clearly, this is an important point for the engineering properties of the material since here the construction may lose its loading capacity or undergo large deformations."

Now, the next excerpts come from a very nifty little site I found called 'Metallurgy for the Cyclist' where they discuss various materials used for competetion bicycle frames, and there's an article on titanium, which is very well written and explained; I highly encourage you to visit the site and read the whole thing-- http://spokesmanbicycles.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=331 :
"Ti's Real Plus: Elongation and Tensile Strength
So titanium gets two second-place marks as compared to steel and aluminum in the first two properties we examined. But when we look at property No. 3, elongation, titanium is miles ahead of either material. This is the property that tells you how far something will bend before it breaks, a kind of safety factor for framebuilders.

Elongation numbers for titanium are often 20 to 30 percent. For comparison, typical steels can be 10 to 15 percent - the higher strength steels go down as low as 6 percent. Aluminum typically runs in the 6 to 12 percent range. Higher strength aluminums again creep into the low range of single digits, with warning bells ringing loudly. Things without much elongation are said to be brittle. Brittle frame failure is not a good thing.

The tensile strength of titanium is also excellent. The cold-worked-stress-relieved yield strength (see "Touring the Ancotech mill" to find out more on CWSR) of the 3/2.5 alloy (that's the alloy usually found in bicycle frames) is typically 100-130 KSI or more. This compares favorably with many steels we find in bicycles. Remember, too, this is achieved with fantastic elongation numbers, and at almost half the weight. And we haven't even talked about fracture toughness and endurance limit yet.

Fatigue Strength
The fatigue strength is another property where titanium performs beautifully (By now, you may be asking: "Is he ever going to say anything bad about titanium?" ). As explained in the previous installments, there is not a definitive measurement of fatigue strength that will tell us how the material will last in a bicycle frame. Bicycles are subjected to forces of varying amounts in a random, cyclic fashion. As long as these loads are kept below a certain level, titanium and steel both have thresholds below which they will never fail. Almost none of the aluminum (including the metal matrix composites), magnesium and beryllium used in bicycle fabrication has a defined endurance limit, so you need to design around it, as was explained last time. "

So what this is all saying is that titanium will bend much farther than steel and still be able to bend back to its original shape--it'll bend a lot farther before becoming plastic (permanently bent/deformed) where you'll have to bend it back to get it back to its original shape, AND it will bend farther beyond the point where it can't bend back before it breaks than steel will--it'll bend farther past it's yield tensile strength before reaching its ultimate tensile strength (where it breaks). This means you've got a lot more leeway with that pick you're working with if it's titanium than if it's steel--even with more pressure than you could put on a steel pick without permanently bending it, TI will still just bend right back without any trouble, and as long as you never reach the tensile yield strength (i.e. you don't permanently bend it where you have to bend it back) it will have an infinite useful life, i.e. you'll never have to worry about wearing it out and having it eventually break on you. :arrow:
From the Wikipedia article on Fatigue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29)

"Some materials, for example steel and titanium, exhibit a fatigue limit, a limit below which repeated stress has no effect. Most other nonferrous metals, such as aluminium alloys, exhibit no such limit and even infinitesimally small stresses will eventually cause failure."

Oh, and the secondary plus to TI is that it is almost impossible to corrode--air, oxygen, seawater, whatever, can't touch it. It will NOT rust, EVER. So, it's more rustproof than stainless steel, can have it's stiffness adjusted to that of almost any type of steel, i.e. spring steel, and is much more flexible and less likely to ever break than both.

Did that all make sense for everyone?? Sorry, I just think TI picks would be a really cool idea so I'm trying to justify doing it :oops: :D
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Postby stick » 24 Aug 2005 19:06

Up till now, I've only seen brief comments made about the possibilies of Ti, and never really much indepth info. So much for that...

Now, onto the costs... How much will a sheet of Ti cost? Who's google-fu is the strongest?

Me! At Advent Research Materials 5 sheets of 1mm thick sheet of Ti, 30x30 cm large, will cost #714! Also, you'll have to consider how much feedback you'll actually get from it. :cry: There goes the practicality of buying Ti picks for the coolness factor.
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Postby wsbpress » 24 Aug 2005 19:27

www.onlinemetals.com has 0.02" thick 12"x24" sheets for about $34 US. I have read that the actual Falles are .6mm thick which is about 0.0236"
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