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Got burgled

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Got burgled

Postby licehunter2 » 29 Aug 2005 20:18

OK, not me, a close friend. Here's the story for you to read, with one or two questions at the end. Those not interested on the tale may jump directly to the questions at the bottom.

So anyway, as she went back to her flat the other evening, she found her door open. Walked in (not much of a situationally aware person, eh? :) ) and found the guy stampeding out of the flat.

There were a number of weird details about that attempt (I call it attempt because he'd just entered and didn't have time to take anything), one being the time at which it was commited (10pm on a Friday), the other being the fact that the flat was on a 3rd floot, rather than ground level, but the one serious concern is the way he gained entry: through the main door, without using force.

There are three ways burglars gain entry here: prying the door open, carding it, or finding an open access (such as an open door or accessible window). [Notice that lock picking is not part of their repertoire]. This is according to a friend of mine who is a police detective in charge of organised fraud and property crime (coincidentally, he lives in that same building).

Since the door was in one piece, he'd obviously not used a pry bar (which likely wouldn't have worked anyway, the door being steel-reinforced), so I looked at the frame and door to see if he'd carded it (assuming the door hadn't been locked), but apart from carding being rather difficult on that frame, there were no scratches or marks of any kind whatsoever. And we know the door hadn't been left open (unlocked, perhaps, but not open), so having eliminated those and other possibilites (such as gaining entry from the roof), we concluded that he opened the door in the easiest possible way: using a key.

The lock on that door was a Tesa T-60, keys for which can be copied pretty much in any hardware store. The fact that my friend had given the keys to her flat to a cleaning company a few days prior makes us think that one of the cleaners must have made a set of copies before returning them.

The first measure we took was to replace the cylinder with a Tesa TX-80, with restricted keys (which don't look that easy to machine either). The way it works (as you will know) is you get a card with a code, which you put in a safe place, and if you ever need a new copy of the key, you show the code to the guy in the shop, who then orders the new key from the manufacturer, who sends it to them and you come back a few days latter and pick it up. She will also be installing an alarm to scare them off next time they try (probably by gaining access to the roof and from there to her terrace).

Now, all that was the background for my questions, which are:

* How effective are restricted keys in stopping people from making unauthorised copies?

* How much is home security improved by having restricted keys, assuming proper key control of existing copies and the authorisation code?

As usual, thanks for your answers.
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Postby n2oah » 29 Aug 2005 20:53

Restricted keyways are nice to have, but they are only one feature that can make up a lock.
Keys can easily be copied with a restricted keyway. One method is the "key moulding" method. The key is stamped into a mould filled with clay. Then a metal is poured into the mould, and that creates the exact replica of the key.
I'll have someone else recommend you a new lock (I am not familiar with euro locks)
but here are some features you want:
Restricted keyblanks
Pickproof
Drill Protection
and Pull out protection
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby TOWCH » 29 Aug 2005 20:57

Key control is effective against people who don't know anything about locks.
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Postby Minion » 29 Aug 2005 21:53

You said yourself that the door could have been unlocked.

Problem solved.
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Postby vector40 » 29 Aug 2005 23:04

Does the mechanism have a (functioning) deadlatch? That's a more important thing to look for than marks around the frame.
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Postby SFGOON » 29 Aug 2005 23:12

A tri-axial medeco laser cut pick proof titanium lock will do nothing...

If left unlocked!

Duh!
"Reverse the obvious and the truth will present itself." - Carl Jung
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Postby treboR » 29 Aug 2005 23:32

SFGOON wrote:A tri-axial medeco laser cut pick proof titanium lock will do nothing...

If left unlocked!

Duh!


True. But the new "self locking tri-axial medeco laser cut pick proof titanium lock" is just what she needs. :D
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Postby SFGOON » 29 Aug 2005 23:35

And what's going to happen when she leaves her keys inside? Do you want to be the one called to that mess? I'd have to do the ninja thing and climb the side of the building and go in though the window.... :?
"Reverse the obvious and the truth will present itself." - Carl Jung
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Postby n2oah » 30 Aug 2005 2:04

You could just knock the cylinder in. Or pull it out. Or make a giant hole in the door. Or just take the whole assembly off.
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby Minion » 30 Aug 2005 6:53

Or thermite...
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Postby licehunter2 » 30 Aug 2005 7:34

You said yourself that the door could have been unlocked.

Problem solved.


I think there is a misunderstanding here. I said "unlocked", not "unlatched". Around here, doors do not tend to have handles on the outside, so even if not locked, you would still need to rotate the cylinder (ordinarily by means of using the key) about 1/4 of a turn in order to open it.

In any case, this is incidental to the two specific questions in my post. Please note that most of us in this forum are not security professionals and those who are participate in a private rather than professional capacity (which to me means it would be inappropiate to ask for, or expect, free advice regarding a specific situation). Also please note that the story leading up to my questions was posted purely as background info and for its "entertainment" value. It is not a complete and exhaustive description of the events nor of the observations made by the police detective present, who as a personal friend and as someone who lives a couple doors down the aisle from where the burglary attempt took place, took a rather keen interest on what in principle seems to be to an extent a crime of opportunity by a semi-experienced burglar.

One method is the "key moulding" method


I wonder if that would that work with a TX-80 (refer to the catalog for more info) with those little pins going through the key. In principle and based on my thourough ignorance of the subject, I don't see why a moulding method such as that available through Multipick-Service should not work. Any comments?
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Postby Chucklz » 30 Aug 2005 8:14

Interactive keys should be immune to the moulding technique. You should get on quite nicely with that cylinder. However, you should also look at other ways of improving security as well. Things like protective film on windows, etc.
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Postby licehunter2 » 30 Aug 2005 9:22

Chuck

Interactive keys should be immune to the moulding technique


Have you got any pointers to an explanation of how "interactive keys" exactly work? I have tried a search but no in-depth info came up. Are those pins in the key supposed to move or something?

You should get on quite nicely with that cylinder


I was very surprised that the local hardware store (small town here) would have it in stock. Lots of them too. And at about €60.- I didn't find it particularly expensive either.

However, you should also look at other ways of improving security as well


Yep, she is doing that now. This is a low crime area and burglaries do not result in serious physical violence unless initiated by the homeowner or a third party[*], so she is installing a burglar alarm which, while not really doing anything to prevent access, should serve to deter, scare people away, and alert of any unwanted presence.

[*] For those wondering about the logic of this: If caught in the act, burglars will attempt to escape if possible and if not, they will just literally sit there waiting for the police to arrive. This is because physically harming someone is a much more serious crime than trespassing or attempted burglary and carries much stiffer penalties (meaning, unproductive time in the shadow, a heavier-handed treatment by authorities in the future, and likely deportation for those staying illegally). An implication of this is that battery charges often result against the tenant if he harms the intruder. Unfortunately, most people are not aware of this and/or do not have the presence of mind or intelligence to deal effectively with the situation, putting themselves in a risky situation in which they didn't have to be. While simply letting someone slip away might feel frustrating, it is usually the safest course of action by far.
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Postby Varjeal » 30 Aug 2005 9:55

Restricted keys at this time are very effective against preventing unauthorized duplication.

As you've mentioned/implied, criminals are generally looking for the easiest entry in. Picking/duplicating a restricted lock/key becomes extremely difficult without adequate tools and knowledge. If the cylinder or door is labelled in an obvious manner as to the general type of security that is being used (even if it's a lie) :roll: it will tend to send the criminal either next door or away.

In the case of this incident, I think your onto something in regards to the keys being duplicated, but that's neither here nor there.

One of the benefits of a restricted key system is that keys cannot be easily duplicated, and that if keys are lost, it's a simple matter of rekeying the lock and getting new keys as opposed to purchasing an entire new lock.

This I guess adds to the second question you had. Basically, it greatly increases security of the home, because the whole idea of having a restricted key system on your home's doors suddenly increases your awareness of keeping track of your keys and even looking at the other keys on the chain in a whole new light.
*insert witty comment here*
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Postby wtf|pickproof? » 30 Aug 2005 10:16

licehunter2 wrote:I think there is a misunderstanding here. I said "unlocked", not "unlatched". Around here, doors do not tend to have handles on the outside, so even if not locked, you would still need to rotate the cylinder (ordinarily by means of using the key) about 1/4 of a turn in order to open it.


You should be aware that an unlocked door can be bypassed in several ways, with carding beeing one but not the only option. This techniques are dead simple, anyone can apply them if shown once.

An unlocked door is nearly as safe as a curtain /rant
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