GUARD padlock

by **Joseph.R.C** » 6 Sep 2005 9:37

IÂ´ve been picking a "GUARD" padlock and I have a question:

I can only pick it if I first set the second pin (counting from the back) an then, with extreme caution on the torque used I set the first (front) pin and then all the other 4. And thatÂ´s the only way I can pick it.

Why does this happens?
Is it because itÂ´s a cheapo padlock or could there be another reason ?

by **Keyring** » 6 Sep 2005 10:00

This is quite reasonable really. All picking depends on tolerances, and the pin to pick first (or next) is in theory the one which feels like it's binding. Which one binds first will depend on manufacturing tolerances, and also on the relative lengths of the upper pins (if they are different lengths).

I agree that sometimes the order is front to back or back to front, but there is really no reason why it has to be like that.

This assumes that there are no security pins. If there are, the story becomes slightly more complicated. I've no idea about a 'GUARD' padlock.

by **Shrub** » 6 Sep 2005 10:05

and also on the relative lengths of the upper pins (if they are different lengths).

This isnt quite right but the rest is, when locks are made they for some reason can not get the holes in a straight line, i mean how hard can it be?

by **helix** » 6 Sep 2005 10:19

It happens because you are picking properly.
No locks are machined perfect, so we get pins that
bind in random orders.

Holes in a plug and case will never line up perfectly, which
will leave (minutely) different sized holes for the pins
to be pushed through.

Most people say that it is because of the misalignment
of the tumbler holes, not being in a TRUE straight line.

What I gather from explainations, is that they believe that
the misalignment is somehow identical in both the plug and
the shell.

Personally, I think that if you move the first hole 1/2mm from
it's resting place, the other holes will move that same 1/2mm,
binding all pins exactly the same.

For me to understand that the misalignment of tumbler holes is
the cause of binding, I've had to come to this conclusion, and I
believe it.

(Please correct me if I am wrong, someone).

Here, dude, take a look at this animated site:

http://deviating.net/lockpicking/topics.html

by **Keyring** » 6 Sep 2005 10:22

This isnt quite right

I could be wrong of course. But I've always pictured a shear interface between two surfaces, and if you imagine a long pin being skewed, and a short pin being skewed, in a hole slightly bigger in diameter, you can see that the smaller pin allows you more movement.

Actually all the locks I've taken apart had the same length top pins so from that point of view, I'm talking cr*p!

by **Joseph.R.C** » 6 Sep 2005 10:36

Thank you all for the quick replies and valid info, IÂ´m just glad that it wasnÂ´t a stupid question.

By the way, the first pin I have to set seems to set in two steps:
- I push it down slowly, and it allows a tinny movement of the lock
- Then I release it slowly and it allows a pretty much bigger move( This is when I set the pin- But I canÂ´t do it without the first movement).... Maybe this is weird but I really feel it in my fingers... :roll:

by **Keyring** » 6 Sep 2005 10:55

Shrub: Yes I've drawn is out, and I think you're right. The effect of tilting the pin is probably insignificant, compared to hole diameter, pin diameter, and hole positions. Oh well...

by **helix** » 6 Sep 2005 11:03

Joseph.R.C wrote:- I push it down slowly, and it allows a tinny movement of the lock
- Then I release it slowly and it allows a pretty much bigger move( This is when I set the pin- But I canÂ´t do it without the first movement).... Maybe this is weird but I really feel it in my fingers...

Sounds like a spool pin.

by **Joseph.R.C** » 6 Sep 2005 11:47

[/quote]

Sounds like a spool pin.[/quote]

helix I think you got it, .... but arenÂ´t spool/security pins only common in some more "decent" locks? Or maybe this one is better than thought.. :?:

by **quickpicks** » 6 Sep 2005 12:38

nope. Shrooms.

by **sawtenor** » 6 Sep 2005 15:58

helix I think you got it, .... but arenÂ´t spool/security pins only common in some more "decent" locks? Or maybe this one is better than thought.. Question

I think we can consider Guard padlocks as "decent" locks. All the pin stacks are loaded with really heavy spring pressure, meaning you'll have to put more tension on your wrench, meaning you'll have to put heavier pressure on the pins (if you go single pin picking), meaning it'll be a lot more difficult to set a spool or a mushroom pin.

Overall, I think keeping raking is the best solution. A sawtooth rake works best for me. If you've got a lot of patience and if you like taking your time, stick to single pin picking.

Anyway, that's up to you

by **Joseph.R.C** » 6 Sep 2005 16:24

sawtenor: you are right about the heavy spring pressure. I tried raking with a sawtooth rake but it didnÂ´t work.

I guess I must practice more, more, allways more.....

Thank you all

by **sawtenor** » 6 Sep 2005 17:41

helix I think you got it, .... but arenÂ´t spool/security pins only common in some more "decent" locks? Or maybe this one is better than thought.. Question

I think we can consider Guard padlocks as "decent" locks. All the pin stacks are loaded with really heavy spring pressure, meaning you'll have to put more tension on your wrench, meaning you'll have to put heavier pressure on the pins (if you go single pin picking), meaning it'll be a lot more difficult to set a spool or a mushroom pin.

Overall, I think keeping raking is the best solution. A sawtooth rake works best for me. If you've got a lot of patience and if you like taking your time, stick to single pin picking.

Anyway, that's up to you

by **sawtenor** » 6 Sep 2005 17:46

Sorry 'bout double post.
I was getting an error message after posting, so i tought that I would try later, but I let my firefox open and just clicked "submit" again without checking the topic.

Where is this editing button?

GUARD padlock

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