Fear and idiocy among locksmiths?

[Heliox]

Please understand that this only applies to a major proportion of locksmiths in my area, no all and certainly not all in all areas. No flaming, pls.

I've been trying to develop some tools for demonstrating vulnerabilities in pin tumbler locks. In my quest for more information I made the major mistake of asking a locksmith. After accusations of:
Racism
Consipracy
Fraud
various other delusional rants

He gave me a lead on where I might be able to find someone with a definitive knowledge of the law which he clearly could not understand. After speaking to that person I was left with a clear understanding:

A frightening proportion of locksmiths in my area (big area) believe that any awareness of the vulnerabilities in normal lock systems is something that only locksmiths and the government should have.

I spoke to someone who was recently at a local locksmith organization meeting. Apparently, the state of texas locksmith board is planning on modifying the 'criminal instrument' so that intent to commit a crime is not required for a convition. Mere posession of anything that can be used to bypass a lock will be a felony. (hammer, brick, huh?) This will include posession on your own land for use on your own locks.

After visiting a locksmith several years ago and asking for the most secure lock available for my apartment, I find now, that the $200 I spent can be bypassed with a modified bump key. I suppose that the ability to walk down the street in my state with a shotgun is reassuring, but If I'm not around, my place is pretty easy to enter covertly.

What, if anything, can be done to get honest answers about the quality of a lock if the locksmiths in the area are hell bent on maintaining a delusional strangle hold on the gross deficiencies (locksmith: We're gettign a huge order of kwiksets in soon) of the locks that they sell as being undefeatable by non-destructive means? I'm really hurting for good information, but the best I've been able to get out of anyone lately is: "this lock is good enough for anything you need to protect" on a freaking 5 pin generic schlage.

I've been around this board long enough to know that this is by no means applicable to all locksmiths, but how do I find the ones who will give me straight answers to questions instead of lying about state law and accusing me of being a criminal for saying 'that's not good enough' ?

[Varjeal]

If it's about locks themselves, ask me or any of the other lockies who frequent this site. If it's about law, contact a lawyer.

[SFGOON]

The Texas board of locksmiths can lobby all the hard to define laws they want. It is unlikely it will make it out of comittee, and less likely that it will be approved. If enacted into law, it will be struck down quickly in court. It is too hard to define.

Do not worry.

Any "locksmith" who still thinks a pin tumbler is hard to bypass is not a locksmith, he is a lock installer. G1 safes I might understand, but not pin tumblers. Idiots, Geez!!

[treboR]

I can use a window to bypass a lock.
I think that windows should be outlawed.

[Chrispy]

I can use a window to bypass a lock.
I think that windows should be outlawed.

[Heliox]

Thanks guys. I'm reminded of the <sarcasm>warm</sarcasm> response thet Matt Blaze recieved from the locksmith industry:

http://www.crypto.com/papers/kiss.html
http://www.crypto.com/papers/flattery.html

... as well as the various weak threats of physical harm against him in other online forums. Thank you all for reminding me that there really are people out there who do not suck, who do not inherently believe that everyone interested in the study of vulnerabilities (who is not a licensed locksmith) is up to no good and who do not believe in security through obscurity.

I had actually forgotten about the I-L issues with lp101 and how they had treated Varjeal. I had basically forgotten that many (most?) locksmiths out there (as reminded by my girlfriend) aren't security professionals, they're door and lock installers.

<understatement>I don't like these people any more.</understatement>

FYI, perhaps the most surreal experience of my life was when I asked a locksmith about bump keys and was immediately, accused of being a member of a racist team of TXDPS agents who were conspiring to destroy all minority locksmiths. (I kid you not.)

[Chrispy]

I had basically forgotten that many (most?) locksmiths out there (as reminded by my girlfriend) aren't security professionals, they're door and lock installers.

Any "locksmith" who still thinks a pin tumbler is hard to bypass is not a locksmith, he is a lock installer.

Something you're not telling us GOON?

[SFGOON]

I don't - have - an answer- for that.....

I think I'm gonna throw up....

[Chrispy]

Desired effect achieved.

[n2oah]

I have personally met people just like Helix is describing. Rude and Ignorant. The "professional" at the local TrueValue thinks he is a professional locksmith because he copies keys all day.

[Heliox]

I had basically forgotten that many (most?) locksmiths out there (as reminded by my girlfriend) aren't security professionals, they're door and lock installers.

Any "locksmith" who still thinks a pin tumbler is hard to bypass is not a locksmith, he is a lock installer.

Something you're not telling us GOON?

ROFLMAO. I didn't even see that from him. I had to read your post about four time. Just to clarify, SFGOON != my girlfriend. Funny though.

Also, please note that we have a 'Helix' and a 'Heliox' here. 'Helix' joined lp101 a while after I did. Try not to confuse us. I don't want him to get credit for my mad 1337 ski11z.

[vector40]

To be honest, this kind of nonsense in the trade is a good part of the reason that I haven't sought out an apprenticeship.

[devildog]

After having been on this board for a good bit before I ever went into a locksmith's shop, I am always VERY careful about what I say. I went to a local one around here because I was looking for an American padlock to play with, and I made up a story about my dad wanting a padlock for his shed--I wasn't about to say I wanted to try to pick it (guy selling it to me used 'it's impossible to pick' as one of the selling points ...I should have said "have you tried hitting it up with some WD-40 first?? I hear that helps flood the serrations and makes it a lot easier ).