Making an unpickable Lock

[Richard Dragon]

I mention this becaue an "unpickable" lock -- by this definition, and for most purposes -- has been around for a long time. I first saw one on a foreign sports car some years ago.

The keyhole is basically rectangular in cross-section, the long sides sligtly curved. It uses more-or-less standard pin-tumbler design, except that there are pins on all 4 sides, and the pins on the long sides can be aligned at different heights. Like any pin tumbler locks, the depths of the cuts -- on all four sides -- can be varied.

This design defeats rapping and the like, and other standard methods of picking because there are just too many pins in too many different alignments. Can they be beaten? Sure. But by far the easiest method is to drill out the whole cylinder, which is also true for many of these more-expensive and more-complex locks. Put a hardened cylinder or a couple of steel balls in there and you have about as secure a lock as any.

Why re-invent the wheel?

[sivlogkart]

Basically if a lock is sufficiently good you will be forced to try to bypass it rather than pick it, and at that stage it does not need to be any better than it is.

KJ

[Richard Dragon]

More-or-less what I said.

[wtf|pickproof?]

Basically if a lock is sufficiently good you will be forced to try to bypass it rather than pick it, and at that stage it does not need to be any better than it is.

At least until the posibillity for bypassing is removed.

While there are some locks with have not picked yet (e.g. EVVA 3KS) and some which can't be picked, at least not in the strict meaning of the word(e.g electronic locks, combination locks,..), this thread's focus is on mechanical locks which use some sort of key. So in my opinion the only valid solution is a lock which, while utilizing a key, prevents the use of picks(e.g. by completly covering the keyway before it can be worked)

just my 0,02€

[n2oah]

While there are some locks with have not picked yet (e.g. EVVA 3KS)

John Falle has a decoder for the 3KS.

The keyhole is basically rectangular in cross-section, the long sides sligtly curved. It uses more-or-less standard pin-tumbler design, except that there are pins on all 4 sides, and the pins on the long sides can be aligned at different heights. Like any pin tumbler locks, the depths of the cuts -- on all four sides -- can be varied.

I'd say that is pickable. There are locks with pins on all sides and locks with 20+ pins that can still be bumped.

[greyman]

I'd like to put in my 20 cents to the discussion on "unpickable" locks. I should say that I'm only talking about mechanical keyed locks. My impression is that all the key operated locks so far mentioned are pickable in the sense that an expert, given the right tools and equipment and enough time and food/drink/rest etc could eventually do it without having the correct key in front of him/her.

The most difficult mechanical lock to pick, in my opinion, would be of the type that no longer is in use. I'm talking about a 19th century lock with a removable bit key. In this type of lock, the key bit is detached and when inserted, it gets transported into the lock. The keyway is then shuttered and the bittings are then checked internally by the lock itself (sort of like having a little guy in there to do it). I do not see how you could pick such a beastie because all the tools so far devised for mech locks require an accessible keyway. Actualy this lock is more a spring loaded key checking machine than a conventional mechanical lock.

(I saw a picture of such a lock in the book about the Mossman collection in NY.)

Any comments?

[wtf|pickproof?]

John Falle has a decoder for the 3KS.

Would you mind to give me a link? I tried google but did not come up with anything.

If that happens to belong to the advanced section (I guess it is) I'd really like to get it pm'ed as I had a discussion regarding 3KS with my local locksmith some time ago.

I have one of those beasts lying around. I'd really like to know how to tackle it!

[n2oah]

I'm just reviving one of my all-time favourite threads!

Also, please refrain from posting stuff like "an unpickable lock is impossible". You're just ruining things for us tinkerers

[timelord]

Next time just ask them to prove that an unpickable lock is impossible!

[LockNewbie21]

Hate to burst the bubble, but the only thing perfect about humans and the thigns we create is there ability to be imperfect, theres always something thats going to be imperfect, there has and never will be something created that is perfect, this is so true that we mainly base everything on flaws, its the factor that makes anything unique, Perfect lock? impossible. It would defy physics and rational thinking and everyother law but you never know as they themselves are imperfect, but our idea of perfect will never be created.


Andy

[timelord]

None of the current models of the universe have it supporting life as we know it forever, so there will be a time when there will be nobody to worry about it.

[raimundo]

One of the first replies in this thread was that no one would post because it would be giving up their ideas, then 205 posts and 25K views later, its still going, is there another thread as large?

[n2oah]

I came up with a crazy idea yesterday in studyhall. I'd post it, but I left the drawing in my binder at school.

[Prodigy]

As far as my 2BOB's worth, IF IT MECHANICAL IT CAN BE BEATEN!!! we there are some real crackers out there.

They are difficult and would pose to be an excellent challenge. As time moves on so does manufacturing techniques and new materials. This is party to the Lock Maker and also the Tool Maker.

Look at the Combination Safe lock. The base idea has not changed from its original concept nearly 200 years. Granted there are the little differences but so do cars, planes & trains.

Lever locks are the same thing, concept has stayed the same and still are providing some of the highest grades of security.

There will never be the PERFECT LOCK, there is bloody close and REALLY REALLY close. but it all comes down to tolorences. The Locksmiths friend, we exploit these tolorences hence opening the lock.

Any way my fingers are going to fall off, I have completed War and Peace.

[TOWCH]

Hey, haven't seen you in awhile. Where have you been?

M\y feeling is, a design that does a combination of locking the tumblers together before they make contact with the fence, shear line, or whatever, and makes that contact momentary, makes a lock effectively resistant to all of the common methods of decoding and picking if the design is properly executed.