RUKO Garant 10, bumpable..??

[NeXoz]

My locksmith friend just told me today that he can bump the ruko garant 10..

It has six pins bottom, and five a five pin side bar..

Here is a link, if that is allowed..
http://www.ruko.dk/visArtikel.asp?artikelID=240

sorry to the mod's if linking to an external site is not allowed..
just delete the post, if it is not..

BUT is it possible to bump open an side bar lock,
with a bumpkey and how?

I know how to bump open a regular 5- and 6-pin, with spoill pins..
but also with a sidebar..?

If figures that the key has to be cut to the lowest,
but is it also the same for the sidebar cut's..?

[Shrub]

If the sidebar cuts are a set standard for locks from a certain shop or for that region then you simply leave the sidebar cuts and just cut the key as normal,

[NeXoz]

hmm.. i've read that some wehere before.. but is it not possible to bump it,
with i side bar also cut to the lowest depth..??

[citronitro]

Hello
Looking round on the internet at what is written it seems that you can bump this lock even though, you do not have the sidebar code.
According to http://www.toool.nl/bumping.pdf they have bumbed the Assa 6000 twin, which works on the same principle.
However it also looks like, that the sidebar design makes bumping more difficult and therefore you cannot expect consistant success.

"Ingeniøren", the danish engineers magazine, had set up a bumping test of all the Ruco locks. This test was cancelled after the Ruko company contacted the locksmith, who was to do the test. This could be taken as evidence of a cover up and that the company well knows, that their locks are not safe
wink:
Meanwhile we are looking foreward to the first video of someone bumping this lock.
Best regards

[net-rom]

ther are no set standard for the sidebar cuts thise are as different fom key to key as the "normal" pins are ! i can not say with 100% that this tybe of lock can not be bumpt. . . but ther is only 5 pins in the sidebar (no pin stack) so ther is no bottom pin to transfer the energi and make the top pin jumpe over the shearline ! hope it helps

[citronitro]

Hello
1) Nobody knows for sure how bumping works, as there exists no high velocity cinematographic images of the process.
The theory is that of billiards: If you bump the first ball perfectly into the next, the latter overtakes the kinetic energy and takes off leaving the first ball laying still. By bumping the lock, the first pin stays still, and the second pin flies to the bottom of the bore. The trick is to add a small momentum to the cylinder, so that it starts to turn before the pins comes back to block.
I have not thought this completely through, but the sidebar seems just to be a cheap way of making the secondary pins. If you bump the lock, the bar should also fly to the bottom of its recess releasing the lock on the return. So until somebody can find a hole in my argumentation I will claim that sidebar locks can be bumped, which also seems to be the experience with the Ruko 600 and other sidebar assisted locks.
2) The sidebar can in theory be made individually, but this is too expensive. Therefore in one country there is only a limited amount of sidebars available. So if you are friends with the local locksmith, you can get the sidebar for that town or region.
3) Bumping the sidebar probably depends on the individual lock. Certain sidebars are maybe easy to bump and others are not. Say there is a sidebar cut deep in the first half and shallow in the second half. After the bump, the first half could travel faster because of its smaller mass causing the bar to kink and get stuck in the recess making it bump-resistant.
Conclusion: Sometimes you can easily bump a sidebar lock.
4) If bumping was impossible, why should the Ruko company stop an independent investigation? My theory is that they know perfectly that their locks are unsafe, and therefore they are covering up.
Best regards

[citronitro]

I have looked more closely at the Ruko Garant, and will refine/correct the argumentation:
Bumping will cause the side pins to fly to the top positions.
When they come down again the cut-out in the pin will pass the bar, which will jump forward stopping the pin in the "lock-open" position.
If all the pins have cut-outs in the same height then I am quite sure, that the sidebar will slide forward no more blocking the cylinder.
If the cut-outs in the pins are very different it gets more complicated.
Say pin number one has a cut-out in the bottom position and pin number two has a cut-out in the top position.
Coming back after bumping, the cut-out in pin number one will tend to release the nearest end of the bar, but the cut-out in pin two has not yet moved down sufficiently, and therefore the bar will not move at all or only a little depending on the tolerances and the wear of the lock.
However if there is a little play and the sidebar can kink there will be a tendency for pin number one to get stuck in the "lock open" position for long enough until pin number 2 and the rest come down and offer their cut-outs to the sidebar.
Because no one knows what happens in bumping one is free to offer the explanation that the pins are oscillating between the top and bottom position after they have been bumped (hopping up and down). This will make it more likely, that bumping can release the sidebar.
Conclusion: I am certain that some of the Garant locks can be consistently bumped. Look also at the brochure. Ruko NEVER calls the GARANT “Bump-safe”!
Best regards