Determining Pin Picking Order

[Lance Boil]

Nice to be at a site where people know what they are doing. Saw the article in Macleans and signed up. Great Site.

Often pins have to be picked in a certain order if picking pin by pin.

Would a super high res digital pic blown up allow me to see the misalignment that determines the picking order?

[phillthepick]

Help, work and live in Spain dont know were to start when faced with tesa t60 and t80,any ideas.
Most other Spanish locks are no real problem.

[Mememe]

dont know were to start when faced with tesa t60 and t80

according to the TESA site http://www.tesa.es/eng/marcas/tesa/cilindros.html both the t60 & t80 are dimples unlike the ordinary te5 which is a standard pin tumbler with the key in line with the pins. Unless you are very experienced and have dimple picks etc you will not be able to pick these security locks with normal picks.

If your interest is in picking for fun then get more complicated locks either locally or on eBay that you can pick with the tools you have.

[Mememe]

Would a super high res digital pic blown up allow me to see the misalignment that determines the picking order?

best place to find out how to pick would be http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=1744

[ericm115]

Nice to be at a site where people know what they are doing. Saw the article in Macleans and signed up. Great Site.

Often pins have to be picked in a certain order if picking pin by pin.

Would a super high res digital pic blown up allow me to see the misalignment that determines the picking order?

Probably not.

The best way to determine picking order is to torque the plug and see which pin binds, set it, and see which pin binds next

I'm not trying to be sarcastic... that really is it.


em

[UWSDWF]

http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=1353


pssssha....HIYA

[Gordon Airporte]

UWSDWF got it - it's not a photo but a diagram in the MIT guide.
But if you have access to microscopy equipment, I'm sure we could think up some uses for it

[Bud Wiser]

Nice to be at a site where people know what they are doing. Saw the article in Macleans and signed up. Great Site.

Often pins have to be picked in a certain order if picking pin by pin.

Would a super high res digital pic blown up allow me to see the misalignment that determines the picking order?

Probably not.

The best way to determine picking order is to torque the plug and see which pin binds, set it, and see which pin binds next

I'm not trying to be sarcastic... that really is it.


em

If this procedure gets difficult, for example it's possible not to be able to distinguish binding order due to heavy spring tension or other factors. In that case I simply start at the back and work my way to the front using very light tension and repeat this process until all the pins set or I throw the lock across the room. Caution should be taken to make sure no one is about to walk in your way before you throw the lock:)

[Lance Boil]

Obviously, with practice one learns to detect the order of pins binding.

If i gave a lock to 20 pickers at defcon, would every successfull picker report the same order of binding, or is the order of binding somewhat subjective.

What got me thinking about this is I saw several sites selling locks where they have been prepicked several times and they tell you the order of binding.

Thought that these might be handy for training newbies.

[UWSDWF]

WHOA it takes you a long time to reply....

I wouldn't think that predetermining the binding order would help in training this would remove the sense needed to detect a binding order in general... dealing with unpredictablity is a major part of picking

[Eyes_Only]

The pin chamber misalignment in the plug plays a big part on determining the picking order but the pins themselves play a part in it also. Every pin thickness is different so this too can affect the picking order. I've re-pinned most of my locks many many times and almost everytime it is re-pinned the picking order changes slightly because of the difference in the diamter of the pins.

[Mutzy]

and it also depends on the direction of tension - clockwise / counter-clockwise. (usually the pin order for one direction is the reverse of the other, i.e. 12345 to 54321. but not always, as i've found)

[Shrub]

I honestly can not see the problem with buying a cheap lock and some picks and sitting there practiceing,

Knowing binding orders, clear practice locks, repinned cylinders etc etc are all cheating and gives a false sence of achievement,

I read new people on here everyday say 'i can pick locks but' 'i have picked locks x,y,z but' etc etc,

I believe no comment on here from someone unknown that they can pick as their version of picking may be from bumping to a lock with 2 pins to a known binding order to a medeco biaxle, it doesnt mean anything until its stated what level of picking the member is up to,

So to talk about your question you made last year (wow slow learner or good reader?)

The binding order will be the same regardless of whos picking the lock, the binding order is a feature of the lock not the picker as your only changing the picker then the lock will remain the same,

There is a small window of oppertunity where a heavy tension could see more than one pin binding and both pins being settable thus meaning the binding order in that pickers mind may be somthing differant to the last one but the real actual binding order never changes,

Picking a lock by taking pics of the plug and lock body holes isnt the best way to do things and requires the lock to have been picked in the first place,

If you have problems in finding the binding order you need to go back to basics and read DB's spp guide as the binding order is the easiest thing to find and is the first and most important thing to learn,
The harder bits are knowing how far to push and getting past security pins,