Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby Code_Superfly » 5 Dec 2009 1:10

Greetings! Everyone here seems to appreciate quality security, whether it's a computer system, lock, or anything else in our daily lives. Vulnerabilities are there to expose, and correct. It seems I'll be in good company here. :)

With that said, I have a brute-force related question regarding the Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB combination lock. How resistant is the 8077's shackle to say, 36" bolt cutters? I'm asking because I recently picked up one of these beauties, and the shackle looks like it's only about 5/16". Being S&G, I would imagine the shackle's made of pretty good steel, but who knows. (For the record, I'm generally a feel the lock, finesse type of guy. What fun is it to totally bypass the puzzle, right?)

We know the 8077's extremely difficult to manipulate. We know they're obviously not vulnerable to picking, or shimming. The body of the lock itself is quite beefy I'd say, but the shackle continues to poke at my curiosity.

I like my $350-$400 lock just a little too much to attack it with bolt cutters haha. It's all polished up. :) Figure maybe someone else out there has tried bolt cutting one which didn't have a combo just for the hell of it.
Code_Superfly
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 5 Dec 2009 0:49

Re: Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby Squelchtone » 5 Dec 2009 1:24

Shift_Jockey wrote:Greetings! Everyone here seems to appreciate quality security, whether it's a computer system, lock, or anything else in our daily lives. Vulnerabilities are there to expose, and correct. It seems I'll be in good company here. :)

With that said, I have a brute-force related question regarding the Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB combination lock. How resistant is the 8077's shackle to say, 36" bolt cutters? I'm asking because I recently picked up one of these beauties, and the shackle looks like it's only about 5/16". Being S&G, I would imagine the shackle's made of pretty good steel, but who knows. (For the record, I'm generally a feel the lock, finesse type of guy. What fun is it to totally bypass the puzzle, right?)

We know the 8077's extremely difficult to manipulate. We know they're obviously not vulnerable to picking, or shimming. The body of the lock itself is quite beefy I'd say, but the shackle continues to poke at my curiosity.

I like my $350-$400 lock just a little too much to attack it with bolt cutters haha. It's all polished up. :) Figure maybe someone else out there has tried bolt cutting one which didn't have a combo just for the hell of it.


Hi and thanks for your question. The thing to understand is that these locks never claimed to be bolt cutter/crop proof. I'm pretty sure 36 in cutters could snap the shackle very easily. The point, and probably the entire point of the 8077 series is to make entry as obvious as possible to the lock's authorized users or true owner. That nice chrome shell is made to show signs of attack, and we know manipulation is time prohibitive. If someone came back from the weekend and the shackle was cut, then obviously their secrets are no longer that secret, and if someone cut the lock off, took it off site, cut it open figured out the combination, got another 8077, set the combo the same, and put the new one on the file cabinet hoping to trick the real owner, the serial number on the big thick back plate is something that can be checked on a Monday morning to make sure nothing sneaky went on over the weekend.

I think that's the point of most high security padlocks that do not have a shroud. key control, picking times so long that they are not worth being discovered in the act, or so difficult that the learning curve is longer than one has time to learn or deems it worthy of spending the time to learn. Some of these high security locks include physical features which make it easy to identify any attempted or successful breaches in security.

good question, thanks for asking it.
Squelchtone
Image
User avatar
Squelchtone
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11307
Joined: 11 May 2006 0:41
Location: right behind you.

Re: Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby Code_Superfly » 5 Dec 2009 1:48

squelchtone wrote:Hi and thanks for your question. The thing to understand is that these locks never claimed to be bolt cutter/crop proof. I'm pretty sure 36 in cutters could snap the shackle very easily. The point, and probably the entire point of the 8077 series is to make entry as obvious as possible to the lock's authorized users or true owner. That nice chrome shell is made to show signs of attack, and we know manipulation is time prohibitive. If someone came back from the weekend and the shackle was cut, then obviously their secrets are no longer that secret, and if someone cut the lock off, took it off site, cut it open figured out the combination, got another 8077, set the combo the same, and put the new one on the file cabinet hoping to trick the real owner, the serial number on the big thick back plate is something that can be checked on a Monday morning to make sure nothing sneaky went on over the weekend.

I think that's the point of most high security padlocks that do not have a shroud. key control, picking times so long that they are not worth being discovered in the act, or so difficult that the learning curve is longer than one has time to learn or deems it worthy of spending the time to learn. Some of these high security locks include physical features which make it easy to identify any attempted or successful breaches in security.

good question, thanks for asking it.
Squelchtone
Hey how's it going, Squelchtone? Forum ninja, you reply with the quicknesssss. Props on the 833C by the way. :) Caught that on youtube. Very nice.

Yeah, I know what you're saying about the 8077. Definitely designed to show any signs of forced entry. Sort of a different approach than say, the S&G Environmental or 833C. (granted parts are numbered on the 833s too, so kind of a combo of strength / intrusion detection there)

I think you're right about 36" cutters most likely not having an issue with the 8077, just wondering if anyone on here has actually tried it. Pretty good idea cutters like those would cut the shackle, but one has to wonder how difficult it would be compared to another shackle of similar diameter. Curious about what type of steel it might be in such an expensive lock. Never know, the 5/16" diameter may surprise everyone hehe.
Code_Superfly
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 5 Dec 2009 0:49

Re: Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby unlisted » 5 Dec 2009 1:59

Ok, so go and butcher your lock if you really want to.. :mrgreen:

I think you will be hard pressed to find someone on here who snipped one of those..
New user? Click HERE & HERE & HERE
unlisted
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 3131
Joined: 27 May 2006 0:42
Location: Canada

Re: Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby Code_Superfly » 5 Dec 2009 2:04

unlisted wrote:Ok, so go and butcher your lock if you really want to.. :mrgreen:

I think you will be hard pressed to find someone on here who snipped one of those..
Haha I was afraid of that. :( Give me ravaged shackles, or give me death!
Code_Superfly
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 5 Dec 2009 0:49

Re: Sargent & Greenleaf 8077AB Shackle Strength

Postby raimundo » 5 Dec 2009 10:48

these types of locks come with shroud, and without, obviously they are proposed for different applications,

suppose you have some welding tanks locked in a cage and the buildings on fire, you want to move those in an emergency, maybe the 36" single use key is what you can find when no one knows where the key is.

Unshrouded locks also make opportunities for locksmiths who weld to make a shackle shroud to keep that 36 inch pinch off if it.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
raimundo
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 9:02
Location: Minnneapolis


Return to Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests