Picking a 1920s Mausoleum Lock

[beancurd]

People used to be employed to walk round the cemetry late at night listening out for the bells too. Hence "grave yard shift"

[MrWizard]

I thought I would upload a couple of pictures of my Sargent & Greenleaf Mausoleum Key Pat Feb 22 1859 very good condition. Appears to be made of nickel silver because of color and magnet doesn't stick.





And another 4 in long S&G key with similar style head that came with it also nickel silver.



Richard

[Squelchtone]

Here are some photos the OP emailed me. He will not be around on the forum very often, so this will give us some time to kick around ideas on how to best open these doors.

Here are the doors from the outside
http://squelchtone.com/locks/hosted/doors-outside.jpg

Here are the doors from the inside
http://squelchtone.com/locks/hosted/doors-inside.jpg

Here is a close up of the lock from the inside
http://squelchtone.com/locks/hosted/close-up-lock.jpg

Here is the keyway on the outside
http://squelchtone.com/locks/hosted/close-up-keyway.jpg

Here is my idea to pull the bolts down and up and swing open both doors without having to pick the lock:
http://squelchtone.com/locks/hosted/bolts.jpg

So.. my idea that I emailed the OP already (not sure if he's had chance to try it) was to get a 5 pound weight, some electricians poly line pull string, and a long rod like a fishing pole.

Since they are standing outside, looking in through a broken window (that I assume is not big enough for someone to get in through) they could attach the pull string to the weight, and then lower the weight through the broken window down to the floor. Then put the pull string through the eyelet on a long fishing pole, and use the pole to reach the top door hook, and lay the pull string in the U of the door hook. Now pull the fishing pole out of the window, grab the pull string, which is now slung over the top door hook, and start pulling it, which will drag the weight across the floor, and once weight gets to the door, if you keep pulling on string, it will lift it into the air, up to the top door bolt. With enough luck and maybe someone on the other side of the door pushing and pulling, the top bolt would get pulled down by the weight of the 5 or 10 pound dumbell or whatever weight they have handy.

TL:DR ?
Here's a pic of what I just wrote about:


That solves the top door bolt, but the lower one is tricky. It would require wrapping the pull string around the lower bolt U and the top bolts U and puling on the pull string out the window hoping that you could pull up on the lower bolt. Open to ideas on that one....

I wish we were all there in person, this would be a cool project to work on.

Squelchtone

[ARF-GEF]

I think that's a pretty good plan.

I wish we were all there in person, this would be a cool project to work on.

Indeed it would

[Evan]

That solves the top door bolt, but the lower one is tricky. It would require wrapping the pull string around the lower bolt U and the top bolts U and puling on the pull string out the window hoping that you could pull up on the lower bolt. Open to ideas on that one....

I wish we were all there in person, this would be a cool project to work on.

Given how rusted all of that looks, it will probably need more than a 10 pound weight to open -- looks like it will need some sort of lubricant before those flush bolts will move...

It would say its time to drive the lock off the door through the keyhole and install a new rim lock which the cemetery staff can keep track of the key to this time around -- all of that looks like it hasn't been touched in decades...

You might just flake off the end of the upper bolt rather than making it move...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

@Evan: +1 on lubricating that stuff first since it has not been moved in a long time.

I wonder if there are locksmiths who can pick a 3 to 5 lever S&G lock like this through a 2 inch long nose using wires or a 2-in-1 pick. I think the OP made mention (here or in email) that they did not wish to drill or damage the door or lock. It would certainly make it easy if they just pounded on the nose until it pushed all the guts out and popped the back cover off. I wonder if that would even work of if you'd still have to retract the bolt after the lever pack is out of the way.

Squelchtone

[Evan]

@Evan: +1 on lubricating that stuff first since it has not been moved in a long time.

I wonder if there are locksmiths who can pick a 3 to 5 lever S&G lock like this through a 2 inch long nose using wires or a 2-in-1 pick. I think the OP made mention (here or in email) that they did not wish to drill or damage the door or lock. It would certainly make it easy if they just pounded on the nose until it pushed all the guts out and popped the back cover off. I wonder if that would even work of if you'd still have to retract the bolt after the lever pack is out of the way.

Squelchtone

I agree that in an ideal world you would wish not to damage the lock like this but its not going to move anywhere with anything until someone can reach it and lubricate the you know what out of it...

I mean how long of a hose on a can of lube would you need to reach in there and squirt those bolts ?

As to trying to manipulate the lock, if it is frozen solid like we all think it is that would take quite a while of pre-treating it and working each piece free through the nose...

It looks like the choice is either between finding the one regional expert to use on this lock spending lots of time and perhaps thousands of dollars just getting into the door, or like I said, drive the lock through the door and replace it with a new lock...

Cost effective or absolutely preserve what is presently installed ? Which option is less insane...

The only other option would be exploiting the breach in the window -- it might be something to be considered depending on how bad the existing damage is as the entire window might need to be removed to effect a proper repair... Find someone small enough to send in on a mission, perhaps someone's kid who is handy with a can of lubricant...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

I just got an email from the OP. He lives 60 miles from the mausoleum and helps in once a year cleaning and maintenance. The window where this was taken has bars over it, and only an 8 inch hole through which the photos were taken. They have repaired and sealed the window already for this year, and will be contacting S&G to see if any history on the lock is known, maybe a record of sale to the cemetery, maybe a bitting code. No rush on this for the OP, but he's thankful for our continued interest.

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Once the top bolt is freed using ST's idea, how about letting the weight pull the string back down and wrap the end of the string around the bottom bolt. The top is already around the top bolt, putting it in a good position to pull the bottom bolt upwards.

Gordon

[MrWizard]

It looks like someone has already flooded the lock with lube of some kind by the dark stain running down the door under the lock. Did he say these doors are metal? They look like it on the inside but look like wood on the outside.

[GordonAlexander]

So I'll be the one to say it...Why are they opening a sealed Mausoleum? Aren't they considered areas of final rest?

That being said, [REDACTED - ADVANCED FORUM INFO] or simply [REDACTED]. Why are they interested in keeping a lock on it if there is a very low probability that the lock will function? The only damage from the outside can he easily concealed. I wouldn't recommend leaving something like this unlocked, but the cost of installing a safe deposit lock back on there would be considerable. If there is even a lock that will fit this prep, a locksmith will have to spend a good deal of time making it work on these doors.

On second thought, this is a great case for Scooby and the gang.

[GordonAlexander]

@Evan: +1 on lubricating that stuff first since it has not been moved in a long time.

I wonder if there are locksmiths who can pick a 3 to 5 lever S&G lock like this through a 2 inch long nose using wires or a 2-in-1 pick. I think the OP made mention (here or in email) that they did not wish to drill or damage the door or lock. It would certainly make it easy if they just pounded on the nose until it pushed all the guts out and popped the back cover off. I wonder if that would even work of if you'd still have to retract the bolt after the lever pack is out of the way.

Squelchtone

There are those that can impression keys. I think they 'smoke' the key for marks in a case like this. There is a good chance there is no spring left in those levers, so it might not be possible.

[Gorgo]

Well, it is almost a year later. I have appreciated all the comments on my mausoleum lock problem. However, I don't want to go the window route again for getting the pictures or trying a mechanical rig to open the door latches. I still believe the best approach is to drill a 1/8 inch hole and use a fiber optic device to find out how to work the levers - as one posted locksmith did. The problem is to know just where to drill though the bronze door and lock case (and without damaging the guts). I'm still looking for a high tech locksmith who might help. The location is about 1.5 hours south of Washington, DC. The forum has convinced me the lock is likely an S&G model. Perhaps someone could point me to a patent for the device and I would be able to learn of the mechanical design. I recently found how easy it is to download any patent. I will be more attentive about checking the forum. Many have been so kind to provide comments. All the pictures are there now and I have posted them on Tinypic.com at tinypic.com/1r54apnr. I am still learning to navigate this site and the tinypic one as well, so please excuse my sometimes confusing inputs. I plan to be at the mausoleum site again in early May.

Many thanks, Gorgo

[Squelchtone]

Thank you for coming back to follow up, that's rare on internet forums. We'll be glad to try and help again when you have access to the location. I have some ideas on how to get in, but they would destroy the lock entirely, and I dont recall if you wanted to preserve it or just get in.

talk soon,
Squelchtone

[Gorgo]

I think it is very important to not destroy the lock. I had previously been in contact with a gentleman who did drill a small hole and picked a lock similar to mine. The hole was then filled with a piece of welding rod and brazed (I'm quite sure the lock is bronze.I know the door is. This would be the ideal solution. I'm a little concerned about pulling out the locking bars on the keeper door side (after a lot of effort to get minimal access though a vandalized stain glass window still protected by steel bars that are about 4"s apart. The fit might be so tight that I would rip things up or severely damage the lock opening the doors. Thought I saw some devices for picking lever locks (through the keyhole) on a U.K. site. I think they were quite expensive. Perhaps someone knows about these and whether one might be rented.
Thanks for keeping my question alive.

Gorgo