Minute Key

[Sinifar]

So I had to stop for some electrical supplies, we got to move a couple of HID 6005 units and change out a bunch of other stuff to move them around.... quick stop at one of the home supply stores, like most contractors, and just grab a couple of things.

While there I decided to just stroll thru the locks --- prices are not too bad, comparing them to either LSDA or Master's new door hardware line. I can beat their prices with mine any day, and a better lock as well! Just looking I found this unit -- "Minute Key" an automated key machine. It only makes Schlage, Kwikset,m or Master padlocks keys, and I figured, what the Heck, for two bux? I can let it digest my shop key ...

The shop key is of course Primus, and they can't duplicate it... or can they?

SO I stuffed the shop key into the machine, and it in time produced the key below....



It looks sort of like the Schlage Primus, but it is not. NOW how does it work? I have one knob lock which is classic "C", and when I got home I tried it in that one. Works like glass. Checking the thing down here the cuts are exactly on the money.

Up shot? There are also apps which can do the same thing. It can't make the high security key, but it produces something very close. For anyone with just a classic "C" - or Kwikset or Master padlock, your key just got made.

KEEP YOUR house keys and any others you want to remain secure hidden when out in public. Goofs are taking "up skirt shots" and I would not be surprised with all the stuff today they could not take a shot of your key, get one made then, from your license plate, they did follow you out to the parking lot, find out where this key fits.

AM I being paranoid? Not today. People today are becoming very adept at theft in this period of hard times and a $2.00 investment could make them quite a pile. Well not if you have high security locks at any rate.

Just something to look at and my experience.

Sinifar

[blue60]

there is a app that you can use to take a pic of a key and order a "replacement" from you're smart phone.

[GWiens2001]

To read my review on the app for KeyMe, click here.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

I don't personally feel too pressured by this new technology, it cuts fewer different key types than the hardware stores do. Around my shop is a lowes, home depot, wal-mart, ace hdwr and a true value. We used to have one more but he croaked. Anyhow when I noticed that everyone else was selling keys, I left my key prices on all the common keys they have at a low price. However I Doubled the prices on all the hundreds of keys these hardware stores don't sell. As I am the only lockshop for many miles it still works for me.

[Sinifar]

Just a F Y I -- this isn't Primus "C" - but something else. It took awhile for the stupid machine to come up with a blank which would work. Second, I think it gagged on the unseen finger pins side, which I did not show in this post. Remember there is more than just Primus "C" - there is CE, E, F, and G as well. All look close. Also there are master mills for Primus, like H, J, and K. SO which one is the shop key?

The Sini will never tell!

Just another thing to think about S123 (system 29) will fit into C123 Everest, but not the other way around. Ditto S145 and C145. Just a thought for you guys who want to "upgrade" your old Everest systems to something new. The outside doesn't know what is in the cylinder, just the key they have in their hand. (Wink-wink)...

There are a lot of games which can be played with locks, if you know how to.

MY favorite is using Emhart High Security pins in a Classic "C" -- There is a way, you need to modify the cylinder, but it will work. Don't rely on the cutting data in the Framon book to make your keys either -- there is another secret here. In the end, with a standard pin in the lead, three Emhart pins someplace in the middle, and the rest standard, you end up with your own high security cylinder, which no goof can pick, bump, or other wise go around. AND if you put UL 436 pins in the lead it is drill proof as well. Add Ilco "bump proof" spring and pin to the last chamber and you got one whale of a high security cylinder.

I also did that to a couple of Everest cylinders, which really gave somebody a pain. It won't work with Primus as the side bar gets in the way of the interlocking pins junction, and my modification to align the Emhart parts that didn't work with Primus. Sometimes there is too much going on inside of a very small apace.

DID we use that out in the field?

Yup, on a frat house whose engineers found ways to make all kinds of high security keys. This one they did not. There are several others out there I made and installed. With machine tools, and some imagination, you can "kit bash" almost any lock and morph it into something else, which does not "talk" and leave even other smiths wondering where you went and with what.

Sinifar

[cj101]

MY favorite is using Emhart High Security pins in a Classic "C"

do you mean the Emhart Interlocking and rotating pins?
In this case you have to mill a groove using a lathe for each and every pin chamber, where you use these pins.

Are these pins still sold? I thought, the Emhart was put out of production years ago.

[GWiens2001]

MY favorite is using Emhart High Security pins in a Classic "C"

do you mean the Emhart Interlocking and rotating pins?
In this case you have to mill a groove using a lathe for each and every pin chamber, where you use these pins.

Are these pins still sold? I thought, the Emhart was put out of production years ago.

They were. And yes, he is referring to the rotating/interlocking pins. He has the tools to make the stated modifications, and how I wish one like that was in my collection!

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

Are these pins still sold? I thought, the Emhart was put out of production years ago.

There are a few big systems still in use, so locksmiths still maintain them. My local Medeco shop supports their existing Emhart customers. An apartment building I lived in a few years ago used them, and it was supported by the same locksmith I just mentioned. They told me the biggest issue is the little T's that connect the pins together break off on occasion.

Squelchtone

[Sinifar]

This Emhart project began over 20 years ago when I got an Emhart keying kit out of a locksmith who was going south. I think at the time I paid about 150 bux for it. I never try to get something cheap from somebody who is getting out, but give them the value of the item. Just my way.

ANYHOW so I have this kit, and one afternoon Al, an old friend comes over and we talk and he mentioned using these in Schlage. His way was to groove the cylinder like Emhart and then tap the top of the bible for set screws like Medeco does. Unfortunately if you don't also cut notches in the key, the thing won't go all the way around as the tenons stop the key from total rotation.

MY was was to make a "funnel" on the top of the plug, and then not have the grooves all the way around. This eliminated the groove all the way around, and the notch in the key, and it does not TALK and tell somebody what is going on.

The patent fight started with us laying the old Emhart patent on a Schlage Everest patent. Then the "improvement" was applied. There was quite a howl over this whole affair and I was expecting Assa Abloy / Medeco to get into the fight at some point but they didn't.

In the end, we had made by now over 40 cylinders, and about 120 keys for a few projects, and I had proved it could work well, and the modifications could be made quickly on a milling machine. KEYS however were another problem.

Most key blanks are not heavy enough (thick) to throw the angled pins. To fix this we worked out an offset from the .156 centers to give us a positive throw to the angle. It also meant making modifications to the depths. My Framon book has all the details listed so I can make the keys without having to screw around with each one.

We use the Medeco cutter for these pins and a standard 100 degree double faced cutter for the rest of the cuts. Left / right cuts are made like Medeco, skewed as needed. Offset the figured amount to give us the positive throw we needed.

Later on I will dig out the proof cylinder in a padlock and will show, basically how it looks. I will not take the thing apart and show the internal workings nor our patent improvement.

Making your own high security locks can be fun, and it gives you one more tool in your arsenal of things to lock things up.

Sinifar

[cj101]

Making your own high security locks can be fun, and it gives you one more tool in your arsenal of things to lock things up.

This is true. This reminds me of my Abus 'Twin' project, upgrading an ABUS C83 lock with the sidebar as found in the Assa Twin system. This lock worked quite well:


Here you can see the sidebar mechanism:


I must admit, that I have a special interest in Medeco and Corbin Emhart locks and already tried to build my own Medeco like lock .This did not work out as successful as the sidebar lock above, however.
Getting the key right is a problem. Although, an Abus key picks up the rotating pin well and rotates it properly to the normal unrotated angle, the angled cuts I made with a hand file, didn't work pretty well.
I already considered of building a Emhark like Abus lock, but at this time, I had no lathe at hand. As in the meantime, this has changed, maybe I reconsider this project.

By the way, could you pick your own locks?

[Sinifar]

This little gem is "bomb proof", you are not going too pick it, bump it, or otherwise force it open - even Mark Tobias has never successfully gotten this type of lock open.

So what happened to the Emhart High security Lock?

Medeco sued over the 30 degree angle aspect of the lock and won some stupid suit. Bye-bye good idea. As others have said, parts are still out there, and you can still buy Emhart Pins from several large Corbin - Russwin - Emhart wholesalers. Expect to pay around $1.25 for each pin today. You don't need tons of them, so one hundred bux will buy you a life time supply of fun to play with.

A good idea shot down by some greedy lawyers if you ask me. This lock was too different from Medeco to really qualify as a patent infringement. Lawyers thought otherwise.

Sinifar

[jeffmoss26]

Very interested in seeing this, Sinifar!

[Raymond]

Thanks, Sinfar. Great info. Lots of fun.