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Commercial sfic keyway questions

Thinking of upgrading your door security? Getting a better deadbolt or padlock? Getting a new frame or better hinges? Not sure what brand or model to go with for your particular application? Need a recommendation? Feel free to ask for advice here!

Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby uscarry45 » 21 Sep 2021 14:07

I am in the market for some small format interchangeable core locks. I understand the pros and cons of the lock. I am having a difficult time deciding on a best keyway. A / E / F / K / WY etc. I am not trying to match up to anything just starting fresh. I see some advertised with extra thick keys although I am not sure which keyways support the extra thick keys but this appeals to me I thick the BEST brand keyways are what I want to stick with I am leaning towards 7 pin. Ok help me decide On a keyway. Is their an advantage to one keyway over another? Is my local locksmith more likely to have blanks for one over another? What’s what difference besides shape of a-e-f-h etc over the ta tb or wa wy etc?
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby jeffmoss26 » 21 Sep 2021 18:37

A - R are standard keyways most locksmiths carry
TA-TE are standard but a little less common
WA-WY are Premium keyways with thicker keys and the cores have a small notch in the face that accepts the core
none of these are patented/restricted
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby uscarry45 » 21 Sep 2021 19:59

Thank you very much. I really appreciate the info.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby cledry » 22 Sep 2021 18:14

Why limit yourself. Go ASSA Twin
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby GWiens2001 » 22 Sep 2021 21:45

As far as what is commonly available, the Best A section is carried just about everywhere. Even Home Depot and Ace Hardware carry it, thought they call it the BE2. Though the chance of Home Depot being able to cut a working Best key is laughable.

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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby Evan » 23 Sep 2021 18:20

GWiens2001 wrote:As far as what is commonly available, the Best A section is carried just about everywhere. Even Home Depot and Ace Hardware carry it, thought they call it the BE2. Though the chance of Home Depot being able to cut a working Best key is laughable.

Gordon


+1

Those Axxess+ machines just don't have the required level of precision to cut a working Best key. I have watched HD employees cut a key that was more than 1/8" out of alignment and hand it to me telling me I was all set. The cartridge based duplication machine is laughable.

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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby demux » 24 Sep 2021 11:10

uscarry45, sorry I'm a bit late to reply, but figured I'd chime in on this. I'm a bit of an SFIC system fan, as some of the regulars here probably know. ;-) Regarding choice of keyway, it sort of depends on what you're after. First, I'll say that any SFIC lock/keyway is going to be miles better than anything you could find in any big box store ever. Especially if you stick the the actual Best name brand, their cores are machined to really tight tolerances.

For my personal stuff and the locks I service on behalf of a few clients, I tend to go with one of a handful of the W* keyways. I like them because the thick key is quite durable, the heavily paracentric keyway is difficult to get a pick in, and even though they're not restricted stuff for them is not terribly common (meaning there would be little overlap with other key systems in your area). The keys are also quite difficult to cut even for an experienced person. Since the keys stop on both the tip and the shoulder your spacing has to be spot on, and you need a machine with a vice specifically designed to handle those types of keys. For me, I find it to be a really good balance between security and availability/affordability (since I'm not interested in getting a contract for a restricted keyway with anyone at this time).

The downside of the above is "less common" does translate to harder to find and more expensive, and there have been times I've had a hard time finding a particular part I needed at a given time. Also, if you're doing this for a client, the keys are quite a bit thicker than most people are used to, and you may get some complaints from some users on having to carry them on their ring, especially for people with keys to several places in the system.

As Jeff pointed out, the A-R are the standard keyways that have been around for ages. They're more common meaning less expensive and easier to get. Keys are also of a more typical size. That said, they're still actually pretty secure. There are a lot of keyways available so there's less chance for system overlap, especially if you have an idea what keyways some of the locksmiths in your area tend to use and choose a different one. The tight tolerances of the system make them difficult locks to pick, and even though key blanks will be more readily available, many of the keyways are still fairly paracentric and you really need a good, properly calibrated machine to duplicate a working key. In other words, it's highly unlikely that any of your system users could walk into a big box store and walk out with a working key, even if they have the blanks. They could do that at a locksmith shop, but most locksmiths recognize SFIC keys as likely a part of an institutional keying system and may not be keen to copy them for some random Joe off the street. There's a thread on this forum here with pics of all the keyways, if I had my choice I'd pick something other than A because as Gordon says, it gets used everywhere and there's more possibility for overlap. Go with one of the higher letter and more paracentric ones to avoid that and also make picking harder. E, F, H, N, etc.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby cledry » 25 Sep 2021 1:32

The reason I said ASSA is you can have SFIC cores keyed the same as standard kik cylinders or even FSIC cores or LFIC cores. I cannot think of another system where one could key all hardware to the same key, SFIC or not.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby billdeserthills » 25 Sep 2021 13:44

cledry wrote:The reason I said ASSA is you can have SFIC cores keyed the same as standard kik cylinders or even FSIC cores or LFIC cores. I cannot think of another system where one could key all hardware to the same key, SFIC or not.



I thought it was cool when ASSA cam locks that could be keyed to full-sized ASSA locks came out but the cam lock catch kit you need to buy for cams/tailpieces discouraged me from stocking their cam locks
https://www.internationalkeysupply.com/ ... ds-69clk-1

I hate shelling out bucks for another plastic box full of stuff that I'll rarely to never sell & I already have a bunch of fairly useless boxes full of things I don't seem to need
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby cledry » 25 Sep 2021 23:31

billdeserthills wrote:
cledry wrote:The reason I said ASSA is you can have SFIC cores keyed the same as standard kik cylinders or even FSIC cores or LFIC cores. I cannot think of another system where one could key all hardware to the same key, SFIC or not.



I thought it was cool when ASSA cam locks that could be keyed to full-sized ASSA locks came out but the cam lock catch kit you need to buy for cams/tailpieces discouraged me from stocking their cam locks
https://www.internationalkeysupply.com/ ... ds-69clk-1

I hate shelling out bucks for another plastic box full of stuff that I'll rarely to never sell & I already have a bunch of fairly useless boxes full of things I don't seem to need


I just use my cams from the Medeco kit that I have had for years. The pins are special though, so to do the system you need SFIC pin kit, regular cylinder kit, cam lock kit, and a few special pins for other FSIC like Sargent.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby uscarry45 » 26 Sep 2021 16:34

Thanks for the info. I hadn’t considered assa and i can see where having the ability to utilize Kik and sfic utilizing the same keyway is a benefit.

For my application the idea of the thick keys with the W* keyways is what I decided on going with.


Any thoughts on sfic padlocks? I would like to utilize one in my project. Out of BEST SCHLAGE MASTERLOCK LSDA GENERAL LOCK PACLOCK is one better than another when comparing similar padlocks ie 5/16 shackle brass body?

Thanks again Jim / Gordon for the info
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby GWiens2001 » 26 Sep 2021 21:59

Which padlock is best depends on what you want from the padlock. There are many styles of padlocks for various requirements.

Gordon
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby cledry » 27 Sep 2021 16:58

uscarry45 wrote:Thanks for the info. I hadn’t considered assa and i can see where having the ability to utilize Kik and sfic utilizing the same keyway is a benefit.

For my application the idea of the thick keys with the W* keyways is what I decided on going with.


Any thoughts on sfic padlocks? I would like to utilize one in my project. Out of BEST SCHLAGE MASTERLOCK LSDA GENERAL LOCK PACLOCK is one better than another when comparing similar padlocks ie 5/16 shackle brass body?

Thanks again Jim / Gordon for the info


Look at the Corbin Sesame line, they make a nice SFIC lock, also Abus. The Schlage is a rebadged Corbin I think.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby demux » 28 Sep 2021 10:20

cledry wrote:Look at the Corbin Sesame line, they make a nice SFIC lock, also Abus. The Schlage is a rebadged Corbin I think.

I have all three in my collection. Going by looks alone, the Sesame and Schlage certainly appear similar, both cosmetically and mechanically. I've had some issues with rust on the shackles of some of my Sesames though, and this should not be the case. I'm not sure if they cheaped out somehow either on the alloy, protection, etc. I like the Abus locks, they seem well made and I like that I can convert them between NRK and NKR by simply adding or removing the Z bar. The lock body/shackle seem a bit wider on these than a standard 5/16" lock. I suppose that can be a plus or a minus depending on your application. Lately though, I've been buying the American SFIC locks, and have been quite happy with them. For a general purpose padlock, they're kind of my go-to at the moment. I've probably got a dozen on the shelf right now and have installed several at client sites. I used to buy the brass bodies but have switched to stainless in the last year or two, and those do seem to hold up to the weather quite well.
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Re: Commercial sfic keyway questions

Postby jeffmoss26 » 28 Sep 2021 18:31

take a look at WB and PacLock for padlocks as well
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